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From: TawnyOwl
Subject: Dynamic Hair and PoseRay
Date: 3 Nov 2011 21:55:00
Message: <web.4eb30cadb9a59ee5bba9e9210@news.povray.org>
For my next Tina-Chep-Entry I would like to have (very) long and curly (!)
dynamic hair from poser in a pov rendering. My first attempts with PoseRay
yielded only “sausages” and/or very buckled hair (no curls). An attempt to use
more than 30 breaks yielded an “out of memory”-error. With 16 GB Memory a bit
unbelievable. Is there a way to increase the memory allocation of PoseRay? May
be I’m too stupid, but I cannot find such an option. Or is there a better way?

Regards,
Michael


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Dynamic Hair and PoseRay
Date: 3 Nov 2011 23:00:44
Message: <4eb31d1c$1@news.povray.org>
On 03/11/2011 9:50 PM, TawnyOwl wrote:
> For my next Tina-Chep-Entry I would like to have (very) long and curly (!)
> dynamic hair from poser in a pov rendering. My first attempts with PoseRay
> yielded only “sausages” and/or very buckled hair (no curls). An attempt to use
> more than 30 breaks yielded an “out of memory”-error. With 16 GB Memory a bit
> unbelievable. Is there a way to increase the memory allocation of PoseRay? May
> be I’m too stupid, but I cannot find such an option. Or is there a better way?
>
>
In p.b.i Life in Gancaloon (wip 2) Thomas wrote

1) In Poser: Before exporting, adjust the Hair Density to your needs, 
and check Show Population (very important!).

2) In Poseray: Convert Lines to Tubes: set Minimum Line Length to 0; set 
Root diameter to 0.01; set Tip Diameter to 0.001.

3) In Poseray: Only export the tube_groups to POV-Ray, not the Lines 
(switch those off in the Group Menu).

These simple rules make a difference. For the first time I've been able 
to render hair.


-- 
Regards
     Stephen


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Dynamic Hair and PoseRay
Date: 4 Nov 2011 08:48:49
Message: <4eb3a6f1$1@news.povray.org>
On 4-11-2011 0:00, Stephen wrote:
> In p.b.i Life in Gancaloon (wip 2) Thomas wrote
>
> 1) In Poser: Before exporting, adjust the Hair Density to your needs,
> and check Show Population (very important!).
>
> 2) In Poseray: Convert Lines to Tubes: set Minimum Line Length to 0; set
> Root diameter to 0.01; set Tip Diameter to 0.001.
>
> 3) In Poseray: Only export the tube_groups to POV-Ray, not the Lines
> (switch those off in the Group Menu).
>
> These simple rules make a difference. For the first time I've been able
> to render hair.
>
>
In addition to that, I would also suggest to start with a low Hair 
Density, and increase gradually until you feel that the hair looks right 
in Poseray/POV-Ray. Be aware indeed that the final mesh2 file can become 
very heavy indeed.

Part of the density can be simulated (maybe) by a smart use of an 
appropriate texture for the hair (in POV-Ray, as Poser's hair textures 
are not taken into account in Poseray). I have been experimenting with a 
wood texture and that looks very acceptable.

Thomas


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From: TawnyOwl
Subject: Re: Dynamic Hair and PoseRay
Date: 4 Nov 2011 20:05:00
Message: <web.4eb444bb2b1201fb1ab964f40@news.povray.org>
Hello Stephen and Thomas,

I thank you for your advice and I will try it next week (since I have forgotten
the usb-drive with the hair-data at the office some 40 km to the north at
Frankfurt). This weekend I will try to get one of the musicians: maybe Anubis
playing Sax...

Thanks and Regards,
Michael


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From: FlyerX
Subject: Re: Dynamic Hair and PoseRay
Date: 4 Nov 2011 20:48:18
Message: <4eb44f92$1@news.povray.org>
On 11/3/2011 4:50 PM, TawnyOwl wrote:
> For my next Tina-Chep-Entry I would like to have (very) long and curly (!)
> dynamic hair from poser in a pov rendering. My first attempts with PoseRay
> yielded only “sausages” and/or very buckled hair (no curls). An attempt to use
> more than 30 breaks yielded an “out of memory”-error. With 16 GB Memory a bit
> unbelievable. Is there a way to increase the memory allocation of PoseRay? May
> be I’m too stupid, but I cannot find such an option. Or is there a better way?
>
> Regards,
> Michael
>
>
>

PoseRay, as with most Windows applications, uses as much memory as it is 
available. If you have 2000 hairs at maybe 100 sections per hair and 30 
breaks that is 12 million polygons. 2 per break because PoseRay only 
uses triangles. This fills up available memory rather quickly, and maybe 
you are running out of video ram in the OpenGL renderer. I know PoseRay 
is not optimized since I am not a programmer but that is the way it is 
now.

Use less breaks (maybe 3 to 6) and a smaller radius. You only need the 
appearance of a line, not a tube.

In general I do not recommend doing hair this way in POV-Ray. It is 
notoriously difficult to apply a material that looks good. It also 
produces a very large mesh. Many trans mapped layered hair models today 
look just as good as strand hair and render better and faster.

later,

FlyerX


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Dynamic Hair and PoseRay
Date: 5 Nov 2011 08:42:51
Message: <4eb4f70b$1@news.povray.org>
On 4-11-2011 21:48, FlyerX wrote:

> In general I do not recommend doing hair this way in POV-Ray. It is
> notoriously difficult to apply a material that looks good. It also
> produces a very large mesh. Many trans mapped layered hair models today
> look just as good as strand hair and render better and faster.
>

I agree. However, not all types of hair (I am thinking of bald patches 
in particular) and even more so beards, are not readily available as 
trans maps, so one has to use dynamic hair in the end. Which, by the 
way, is also interesting when using wind. So, with a careful management 
of the number of polygons, one can achieve something acceptable in 
POV-Ray, although maybe not in close up.

Thomas


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Dynamic Hair and PoseRay
Date: 5 Nov 2011 13:18:42
Message: <4eb537b2$1@news.povray.org>
An illustration of what I mean can be seen in p.b.i.

Thomas


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From: TawnyOwl
Subject: Re: Dynamic Hair and PoseRay
Date: 7 Nov 2011 20:55:01
Message: <web.4eb844fb2b1201fb81a7bfc00@news.povray.org>
Thomas de Groot <tenDOTlnDOTretniATtoorgedDOTt> wrote:
> An illustration of what I mean can be seen in p.b.i.
>
> Thomas

First I will thank you all for the help again. I'm on a much better way now. The
main problem seems to be the trade off between the hair density and the number
of breaks, especially if you intent a more close picture. As I originally wrote,
I would like to have curly hair which cannot be achieved with 3 to 6 breaks
only. 30 seems to be a minimum for that goal with dynamic hair from poser - and
a certain degree of closeness. I have choosen to sacrifice the half of the
originally intended length and worked throuh a slightly modified version of the
second example in the poser tutorial (I only bended the head a little bit to the
back for the dynamics calculations) which fulfilles my needs for the intended
picture. Since I have the one or other idea to improve the result, I will give
them a try before I show you the result...

Regards,
Michael


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Dynamic Hair and PoseRay
Date: 8 Nov 2011 08:32:07
Message: <4eb8e907$1@news.povray.org>
On 7-11-2011 21:52, TawnyOwl wrote:
> First I will thank you all for the help again. I'm on a much better way now. The
> main problem seems to be the trade off between the hair density and the number
> of breaks, especially if you intent a more close picture. As I originally wrote,
> I would like to have curly hair which cannot be achieved with 3 to 6 breaks
> only. 30 seems to be a minimum for that goal with dynamic hair from poser - and
> a certain degree of closeness. I have choosen to sacrifice the half of the
> originally intended length and worked throuh a slightly modified version of the
> second example in the poser tutorial (I only bended the head a little bit to the
> back for the dynamics calculations) which fulfilles my needs for the intended
> picture. Since I have the one or other idea to improve the result, I will give
> them a try before I show you the result...

I have never tried curly hair so your work is an interesting first. I am 
certainly interested in any improvement that can be reached. I am also 
still experimenting with different ideas and shall report any 
breakthrough. As I answered to FlyerX, we cannot rely entirely on hair 
maps only.

Thomas


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From: TawnyOwl
Subject: Re: Dynamic Hair and PoseRay
Date: 9 Nov 2011 21:25:00
Message: <web.4ebaef632b1201fbc8af75270@news.povray.org>
Thomas de Groot <tenDOTlnDOTretniATtoorgedDOTt> wrote:
>
> I have never tried curly hair so your work is an interesting first. I am
> certainly interested in any improvement that can be reached. I am also
> still experimenting with different ideas and shall report any
> breakthrough. As I answered to FlyerX, we cannot rely entirely on hair
> maps only.
>
> Thomas

I really hope I can achieve the goal.

So, now I have a first EIP (as I put it: experiment in progress) and will put it
into the p.b.i as a response to the picture of Thomas. This one will make my
intentions a little bit more clear I hope. It is only the "`hair"'. I hope you
can imagine a female head looking to te upper left inside of it. I mixed up some
memories in my head from my first approach at the beginning of the year and was
a little bit confused about the results I achieved. FlyerX is right in saying
that 30 breaks are to much - an error of me -, but as is obvious in the picture
six are not enough. The problem turned out more to be a problem with an
appropriate texture than with the breaks or the support points in poser. Of
course I will hair and not red ribbons, but this one comes close to my
intentions. And I must comb her a little bit more ...

When I'm through it, I will give you the final result. But have some patience...

Regards,
Michael


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