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I don't have an habit of making posts about my personal life, but I thought
it would be nice for a change to hear people's thoughts about the subject.
I think it's a problem which not many people are aware of, or pay much
attention to, because it doesn't afflict nor concern them. Basically:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loneliness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love-shyness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_celibacy
I think there's at least one person here who I can relate to.
Some selected quotes from the above pages:
"Chronic loneliness [...] is a serious, life-threatening condition. At
least one study has empirically correlated it with an increased risk
of cancer, especially for those who hide their loneliness from the
outside world. It is associated with increased risk of stroke and
cardiovascular disease. People who are socially isolated also report
poor sleep quality and thus have diminished restorative processes.
Loneliness is also linked with depression, a risk factor for suicide."
"In 2005, results from the U.S. Framingham Heart Study demonstrated
that lonely men had raised levels of IL-6, a blood chemical linked to
heart disease. A 2006 study conducted by the Center for Cognitive and
Social Neuroscience at the University of Chicago found loneliness can
add 30 points to a blood pressure reading for adults over the age of 50."
"A news article reporting on the study indicated that involuntary
celibacy can lead to anger and depression. [...] Involuntary celibacy
may also result in an affected individual experiencing an existential
crisis."
"A minority of the younger love-shys had some feelings of optimism in
getting their problems fixed while all of the older love-shys felt
very pessimistic about their problems and also felt cynical about
women and the world in general. The older men expressed more anger in
their interviews while the younger men were calmer."
--
- Warp
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You forgot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_anxiety_disorder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder
--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.freesitespace.net
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Warp wrote:
> I don't have an habit of making posts about my personal life, but I thought
> it would be nice for a change to hear people's thoughts about the subject.
It is a very complex subject to be sure. At least two logical
entanglements come immediately to mind.
One is deciding when it is valid to view loneliness as an affliction
that happens somehow *to* the person and when solitude is actually the
preference of the person and the result of their own decisions. And
then how to arrive at a coherent 'view' of the condition that can be
shared by the affected person, subjectively, and at the same time by an
'objective' or at least 'outside' observer.
Another entanglement comes with the moving target of social involvement
in modern life which seems to allow for a greater commoditization of
social interaction. Everything from television personalities as
companion to online sex-rooms. I can hire a therapist or hire a sex
worker with equal facility and both can provide a kind of human
interaction that I am in control of and requires far less commitment and
creates less stress than an actual friendship. Or I can have a job that
requires I interact with people, such as classroom teaching, but which
has clear and stress-reducing delimitation.
I think your idea that people are generally unaware of the condition is
wrong though. I do think that many may substitute various standins for
social involvement which may mask or disguise a state of loneliness. In
this case you might argue that the person is seduced by forces at little
beyond his understanding and so the idea that he is lonely by choice may
not be such a clear thing.
-Jim
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count me in! Not that I care...
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Tim Cook <z99### [at] gmail com> wrote:
> You forgot
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_anxiety_disorder
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder
Not my case, though.
--
- Warp
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Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:
> One is deciding when it is valid to view loneliness as an affliction
> that happens somehow *to* the person and when solitude is actually the
> preference of the person and the result of their own decisions. And
> then how to arrive at a coherent 'view' of the condition that can be
> shared by the affected person, subjectively, and at the same time by an
> 'objective' or at least 'outside' observer.
It is a problem when the afflicted person suffers from the situation
(in other words, the loneliness is not a conscious decision) and feels
that he is unable to fix the problem even though he would want to.
One reason for the latter may be lack of social skills and experience
at socializing. This can be a self-sustaining problem: Lack of experience
and skills stops the person from getting them through experience because
he is unable to properly socialize, get new acquaintances, and so on.
The person may be unable to reach out to others, and even if sometimes
others reach out to him, he may be unable to reciprocate, and the social
situation might not go anywhere beyond just a short and formal conversation.
(It often feels like people just give up too easily. Maybe they think
"that guy clearly doesn't want to get involved, I'll just let him be",
even though it might not be anything like that. It's not necessarily that
he wants to be left alone, it may be that he doesn't know how to express
himself in such a social situation, giving the wrong impression that he's
not interested.)
--
- Warp
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My new idea-- forgive me if this is too trite of advice-- is that "internet"
socialization feeds "real world" loneliness.
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"gregjohn" <pte### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> My new idea-- forgive me if this is too trite of advice-- is that "internet"
> socialization feeds "real world" loneliness.
yes:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/jan/14/facebook
But it's because:
http://www.feedmeastraycat.net/uploads/dilbert071024.gif
http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2008-11-21/
and also:
http://www.mattcutts.com/images/duty_calls.png
:D
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On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 11:14:28 -0500, Warp wrote:
> One reason for the latter may be lack of social skills and experience
> at socializing. This can be a self-sustaining problem: Lack of
> experience and skills stops the person from getting them through
> experience because he is unable to properly socialize, get new
> acquaintances, and so on. The person may be unable to reach out to
> others, and even if sometimes others reach out to him, he may be unable
> to reciprocate, and the social situation might not go anywhere beyond
> just a short and formal conversation.
Very much so - I used to have problems like this myself; it is possible
to break the cycle, but it's not easy to do. What I did was forced
myself into situations where I had to socialize; I ask people in the
office if they want to grab lunch (that's a big one for me), went to my
5th high school reunion, and also got involved in doing presentations at
trade shows and eventually into teaching classes.
From the reunion, well, that was a disaster, actually; I ended up talking
to a girl who was in my English class and she asked what I'd been up to.
My first book had just been published, and I told her that; she was
interested and asked what it was about. Rather than say "it's about
troubleshooting Novell's NDS" (which she clearly wouldn't have
understood), I said it was about computers. Her response was "Oh. I
hate computers." and that killed the conversation. In retrospect, I
wasn't the one lacking social skills in that situation.
But I also realised how few people I went to high school with that I
actually knew.
I still struggle with it from time to time. I've never been diagnosed as
having any sort of social "disorder", but I was always a loner and had a
very small group of friends. When I was in elementary school, it was bad
enough that I had some sessions with the school therapist (which I had
actually forgotten about until just now).
Jim
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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> Very much so - I used to have problems like this myself; it is possible
> to break the cycle, but it's not easy to do.
As for me, I don't think I'm very shy. Not anymore at least. (Well, it
depends on the definition of "shy", but if we define it as getting nervous
about interacting with people, I don't have a problem with that.)
In the past I was much shier. I used to hate eg. making telephone calls
to unknown people. Not anymore, as I have got completely over that. Nowadays
I don't have the slightest problem in calling anybody for whatever reason,
especially if it's about something I need (for example calling my ISP to
ask something, or whatever). In fact, rather ironically for a computer nerd
like me, I often even *prefer* calling by phone rather than writing an email
because many things are much faster to resolve by phone because the
necessary conversation can be performed in real-time. (Part of this is that
I have grown tired of people, especially ones working for companies, not
actually reading the email and replying with completely useless generic
answers, often ones which I have already specifically mentioned in the
email; when you actually *tell* the person it's much harder to ignore.)
Likewise if I need to go in person somewhere, I haven't had a problem with
that in a long time (even though in the past I was shier about it). Eg. if
I have to go to some office or whatever to deal with something in person
(eg. sign papers or whatever), I just go, no problem.
However, all that is completely different from actually being able to
socialize and engage in small talk. And it's enormously different from
going to an unknown person with no specific reason, just to socialize.
And yes, especially if that other person happens to be female.
I don't know why, but for some reason it seems that people have stopped
approaching me as well, in social situations. When I was much younger
(early 20's or such) people were much eager to start sporadic small talk
for no specific reason than to socialize. Nowadays that just doesn't happen.
I don't even remember when was the last time that someone wanted to socialize
out of the blue with me in a social situation.
I wonder if it's the age. Is looking well over 30 some kind of natural
repellent for people? They are not interested in a mid-aged man as much
as they are in a younger one?
If there is indeed such a psychological phenomenon, it only aggravates
the chronic loneliness problem.
--
- Warp
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