Jim Henderson wrote:
> My stepson went to a school for gifted ADD and highly-distractable
> students, many of whom were on various drugs for their conditions - and
> while I'm no MD, it was clear to me that many of them were just very
> active kids with parents who wanted their kids to be "less active".
> There probably was a percentage who actually *needed* the drug, but I
> wouldn't hesitate to say that all of them didn't need it - though I
> certainly wouldn't be the one to decide who got it and who didn't.
(grr, lost post half-written, no draft saved)

Kids are *always* hyperactive. And particularly annoying trying to always
get the attention of their parents (ever seen a kid repeating "mommy look
what I found!" until mommy looks, *literally* a hundred times if needed?).
The problem is with parents distinguishing when it's normal and when it's
really ADHD.

I guess my case is different because *I* notice *my* lack of attention. And
talk to friends about "do you ever get distracted with X" to see if it's
normal or my ADD. (*) I mean, sure, everyone gets distracted during a
boring class at school. But I could spend several minutes during an exam
playing around with the pen and thinking about *whatever*, without
even "remembering" I'm at an exam. I just "wake up" and "oh yeah I'm
halfway on an exam... where was I...". Or just anywhere else. Like spending
an hour on the *shower*, who knows how much time actually washing and how
much with my mind on the moon.

(*) at this point in writing this post, I spent like a whole hour reading
forums, completely forgetting I had this post half-written behind the
browser window.

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> it's ridiculous.  "Restless Legs Syndrome"?  Are you f-ing kidding me?  
> People who "suffer" from that sound to me like they need to go and get 
> some exercise.  

My sister-in-law has this. It's apparently related to Parkinson's 
disease. I think the truth is that it's a real problem for many fewer 
people than the drug companies would lead you to believe.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     "That's pretty. Where's that?"
          "It's the Age of Channelwood."
     "We should go there on vacation some time."

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On Thu, 15 May 2008 02:07:15 -0300, Nicolas Alvarez wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> My stepson went to a school for gifted ADD and highly-distractable
>> students, many of whom were on various drugs for their conditions - and
>> while I'm no MD, it was clear to me that many of them were just very
>> active kids with parents who wanted their kids to be "less active".
>> There probably was a percentage who actually *needed* the drug, but I
>> wouldn't hesitate to say that all of them didn't need it - though I
>> certainly wouldn't be the one to decide who got it and who didn't.
> (grr, lost post half-written, no draft saved)
> 
> Kids are *always* hyperactive. And particularly annoying trying to
> always get the attention of their parents (ever seen a kid repeating
> "mommy look what I found!" until mommy looks, *literally* a hundred
> times if needed?). The problem is with parents distinguishing when it's
> normal and when it's really ADHD.

Yep.

One of the more interesting discussions I had was with one of Ken's 
friends as we were getting ready to move (closer to the school, actually) 
- Will had come over to help move things, and we got to talking about his 
ADHD.  He started describing what it was like living in his head, and how 
frustrating it made him that he couldn't focus on one thing at a time.  
That was an incredibly enlightening discussion.

> I guess my case is different because *I* notice *my* lack of attention.
> And talk to friends about "do you ever get distracted with X" to see if
> it's normal or my ADD. (*) I mean, sure, everyone gets distracted during
> a boring class at school. But I could spend several minutes during an
> exam playing around with the pen and thinking about *whatever*, without
> even "remembering" I'm at an exam. I just "wake up" and "oh yeah I'm
> halfway on an exam... where was I...". Or just anywhere else. Like
> spending an hour on the *shower*, who knows how much time actually
> washing and how much with my mind on the moon.

Well, Will also noticed his lack of attention, but he said that it took a 
significant amount of effort to focus his attention on anything.  It's 
been 7-ish years since that conversation, and unfortunately, I can't ask 
him about it again (sadly, he was killed in an ATV accident about a year 
ago).  I think for many of us, though, some of these experiences are 
fairly normal.  Mind wandering in the shower, for example - I get some of 
my best ideas in the shower because I just let my mind wander.  Even at 
work, though, I sometimes drift from thing to thing - partly because I've 
got a lot to do (yet I spend time reading/writing in newsgroups too).  I 
don't think it's ADD/ADHD or anything like that, more just how I'm wired.

> (*) at this point in writing this post, I spent like a whole hour
> reading forums, completely forgetting I had this post half-written
> behind the browser window.

BTDTGTTS. :-)

Jim

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On Thu, 15 May 2008 09:09:32 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> it's ridiculous.  "Restless Legs Syndrome"?  Are you f-ing kidding me?
>> People who "suffer" from that sound to me like they need to go and get
>> some exercise.
> 
> My sister-in-law has this. It's apparently related to Parkinson's
> disease. I think the truth is that it's a real problem for many fewer
> people than the drug companies would lead you to believe.

Yes, and that's ultimately my problem with these new "diseases" - there's 
no doubt in my mind that some people do have this, but there's a big 
difference between something related to Parkinson's and people who just 
can't keep their leg still under their desk (and thus "bounce" it).  The 
latter IME is more related to the fact that as a society, we exercise 
less now than we ever have.

Jim

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On Wed, 14 May 2008 23:12:11 -0400, Sabrina Kilian wrote:

> On Tue, 13 May 2008 23:58:45 -0400, Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>> This is true of many drugs in general, IMHO.
>>
> Yup, at least here in the USA. Every drug has a theme and a catchy new
> name for a disorder that's been around for a long time. But the one with
> the catchiest words gets prescribed.

Yeah, and that's a huge societal problem.  

>> Just look at the number of Ritalin scripts written in the 90's in the
>> US.  Many of the kids who this (or other ADD-"fighting" drugs) was
>> prescribed for didn't actually need it.
>>
>> [...]
>>
> I'm afraid that if I commented on this, I would end up ranting. I'll
> leave it as that I agree with you on this point, and lazy parenting
> seems to be a source of a lot of issues.

Agreed.  I have a pretty good rant about this as well - especially with 
the school Ken went to, a lot of the parents seemed to treat their kids 
as fashion accessories.  Those were the parents we weren't terribly 
friendly with.

One of Ken's friends came over to the house after a particularly bad day, 
and my wife went over and gave him a hug.  His reaction was fairly 
disconcerting - he basically locked rigid.  Turned out he *couldn't 
remember* the last time his mom hugged him.

My wife wanted to bitch-slap her for that....How can you not hug your own 
kid?

> Some people can't exercise, so I can see the use of the medication. On a
> bad day when I can't walk, my legs get that feeling. And when you can't
> walk with two canes and a decent level of opioid compounds in your blood
> stream, you just aren't going to get that exercise. On the up side, you
> don't notice "RLS" with that level of pain killers, so it doesn't often
> become an issue.

I suppose I could see that.  But like Darren suggested, the number of 
people who actually *need* it is probably far fewer than those who get 
it.  But the thing that really disturbs me is the advertising "ask your 
doctor if Vaxodrine is right for you" - why SHOULD I?  Is that why my 
DOCTOR is my DOCTOR?  He's the one who went to medical school, not me.

> 
> Diphenhydramine HCL(Benadryl) gives me the heebeejeebees, plain and
> simple. Past seeing spots, even the allergy dose has me seeing cats
> walking through walls. Probably why SSRIs give me trouble too, since
> Benadryl begot Prozac begot the rest of the whole mess.
> 
> 
> Also funny, seeing a doctor's face when the read 'Allergic to benadryl'
> on a form. They don't know how to process 'allergic to an anti-allergy
> medication'.

LOL, I may have to ask my allergist about that when I have my next 
appointment with him.  My reaction to taking a couple of the tablets 
isn't something I'd consider normal.

The only bad reaction I can remember having is hydrocodone - 
hallucinations, lack of sleep (hallucinating that I was sleeping was odd 
- and went on for a week).  Nasty stuff, apparently less than %0.01 of 
people who take it have the reaction I did.

Don't even remember what he replaced it with, but it was as effective for 
the pain (I had a broken leg at the time).

Jim

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> can't keep their leg still under their desk (and thus "bounce" it). 

I'm pretty sure that's not what "restless leg syndrome" is. :-)

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     "That's pretty. Where's that?"
          "It's the Age of Channelwood."
     "We should go there on vacation some time."

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On Thu, 15 May 2008 16:05:29 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> can't keep their leg still under their desk (and thus "bounce" it).
> 
> I'm pretty sure that's not what "restless leg syndrome" is. :-)

I am as well, but I wonder how many people who do that think that that's 
what they've got - and how many of those people actually get their 
doctors to give them a script for it.

Jim

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And lo on Thu, 15 May 2008 20:41:13 +0100, Jim Henderson  
<nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:

> On Wed, 14 May 2008 23:12:11 -0400, Sabrina Kilian wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 13 May 2008 23:58:45 -0400, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>
>>> This is true of many drugs in general, IMHO.
>>>
>> Yup, at least here in the USA. Every drug has a theme and a catchy new
>> name for a disorder that's been around for a long time. But the one with
>> the catchiest words gets prescribed.
>
> Yeah, and that's a huge societal problem.

Just because the people being advertised at have no ability to make an  
objective choice over these medications doesn't mean they shouldn't be  
advertised in the same way as shampoo or washing powder. Just as for them  
if the product doesn't work for you just switch; no harm done right?  
[cough]

>>> Just look at the number of Ritalin scripts written in the 90's in the
>>> US.  Many of the kids who this (or other ADD-"fighting" drugs) was
>>> prescribed for didn't actually need it.
<snip>
> My wife wanted to bitch-slap her for that....How can you not hug your own
> kid?

At times you have to wonder how many of these 'disorders' are parentally  
caused.

<snip>
> But the thing that really disturbs me is the advertising "ask your
> doctor if Vaxodrine is right for you" - why SHOULD I?  Is that why my
> DOCTOR is my DOCTOR?  He's the one who went to medical school, not me.

Ah but your doctor may be in the pay of an evil anti-Vaxodrine company,  
it's your choice, nay right, to be given the medication that spends the  
most on advertising.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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On Fri, 16 May 2008 09:12:49 +0100, Phil Cook wrote:

> And lo on Thu, 15 May 2008 20:41:13 +0100, Jim Henderson
> <nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:
> 
>> On Wed, 14 May 2008 23:12:11 -0400, Sabrina Kilian wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 13 May 2008 23:58:45 -0400, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is true of many drugs in general, IMHO.
>>>>
>>> Yup, at least here in the USA. Every drug has a theme and a catchy new
>>> name for a disorder that's been around for a long time. But the one
>>> with the catchiest words gets prescribed.
>>
>> Yeah, and that's a huge societal problem.
> 
> Just because the people being advertised at have no ability to make an
> objective choice over these medications doesn't mean they shouldn't be
> advertised in the same way as shampoo or washing powder. Just as for
> them if the product doesn't work for you just switch; no harm done
> right? [cough]

Heh, better watch out, your sarcasm tags are showing, Phil. ;-)

>> My wife wanted to bitch-slap her for that....How can you not hug your
>> own kid?
> 
> At times you have to wonder how many of these 'disorders' are parentally
> caused.

Yes, though a lot of times knowing both the parent and the kid makes that 
very, um, apparent. ;-)

> <snip>
>> But the thing that really disturbs me is the advertising "ask your
>> doctor if Vaxodrine is right for you" - why SHOULD I?  Is that why my
>> DOCTOR is my DOCTOR?  He's the one who went to medical school, not me.
> 
> Ah but your doctor may be in the pay of an evil anti-Vaxodrine company,
> it's your choice, nay right, to be given the medication that spends the
> most on advertising.

And now we know where all our money goes when we pay for our 
perscriptions. ;-)

Jim

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> One of Ken's friends came over to the house after a particularly bad day, 
> and my wife went over and gave him a hug.  His reaction was fairly 
> disconcerting - he basically locked rigid.  Turned out he *couldn't 
> remember* the last time his mom hugged him.
> 
> My wife wanted to bitch-slap her for that....How can you not hug your own 
> kid?

	I'll start an argument and probably won't bother finishing it.<G>

	I'd just say that's fairly judgmental. I knew a Turkish person who came
and spent time in the US. He would frequent the church and play a lot
with the kids there. At some point he was simply told he was unwelcome.
His behavior with the kids was "alarming" for them and they were worried
he was/would be a child molester. Of course, his behavior was "standard"
where he came from.

	These things just aren't as obvious as they seem.

-- 
It is kisstomary to cuss the bride.


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                                   anl

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