And lo on Fri, 15 Feb 2008 03:32:49 -0000, Tim Cook <z99### [at] gmailcom>  
did spake, saying:

> alphaQuad wrote:
>> Author Bill Cooper, "Behold A Pale Horse": "In every instance that I  
>> have
>> investigated -- the incident at the women's school in Canada, the  
>> shopping mall
>> in Canada, the Stockton, California, massacre, and the murder of Rabbi  
>> Meir
>> Kahane -- the shooters were all ex-mental patients or were current  
>> mental
>> patients who were all on the drug Prozac."
>
> Most significant phrase in this comment: "that I have investigated".
>
> *smirk*
>
> If you only investigate the ones that were ex-mental patients or current  
> mental patients, all on Prozac, well...

Yeah I spotted that too, there can be a world of difference between  
incidents reported and incidents investigated. Does he then go on to  
investigate why these people are ex-/mental patients? Otherwise all this  
could suggest is that Prozac doesn't always work, colour me stunned!

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

And lo on Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:08:56 -0000, scott <sco### [at] laptopcom> did  
spake, saying:

>> You know, to outsiders it seems like this kind of thing has become  
>> routine in
>> America.
>
> From the BBC article:
>
> "Last Friday, a woman shot dead two fellow students before killing  
> herself at Louisiana Technical College in Baton Rouge. In Memphis,  
> Tennessee, a 17-year-old is accused of shooting and critically wounding  
> a student on Monday, and a 15-year-old was shot at a junior high school  
> in California on Tuesday."
>
> The whole culture in the US seems different regarding guns.

And it's this that seems to be more the problem then simple ownership

>  The only guns I've ever seen in my life are the ones the police carry.   
> I don't know anyone who has a gun, I don't know anyone who could get me  
> a gun if I wanted one.

Midnight on level 2 of the multi-storey car-park, bring cash.

>  I'm sure most people round here are the same.  Unless you are in some  
> large criminal gang, I just don't think you can get hold of a gun.

Oo ar well I be in the country so we get a lot of shotguns and the odd  
rifle. No handguns of course since the ban. Incidently we seem to be  
getting increased reporting of stabbing incidents.

> These seem like previously "normal" people before they do these  
> shootings, where do they get the guns from?

Gunshops.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

"alphaQuad" <alp### [at] earthlinknet> wrote:
> My point is this ( and on that page )
>
> Author Bill Cooper, "Behold A Pale Horse": "In every instance that I have
> investigated -- the incident at the women's school in Canada, the shopping mall
> in Canada, the Stockton, California, massacre, and the murder of Rabbi Meir
> Kahane -- the shooters were all ex-mental patients or were current mental
> patients who were all on the drug Prozac."
>


Is the problem:
i) Insane (apologies if wrong word choice) people.  (Some insane people ate beef
hamburgers, some had Prozac)
ii) Prozac?

Post a reply to this message

"alphaQuad" <alp### [at] earthlinknet> wrote

> My point is this ( and on that page )
>
> Author Bill Cooper, "Behold A Pale Horse": "In every instance that I have
> investigated -- 

He can safely and truthfully say that, even if, especially if, he choses to
investigate only those instances that support his pet theory and help sell
his book. I have no clue who he is, or what the book is about, but phrases
like that need not and should not appear in proper research, ever.

> Add to the list Columbine's Eric Harris, Cho Seung-Hui at Virginia Tech,
and 2
> more deaths at NASA with a previous indent by a Fluorine-crazed astronut
> wearing space diapers. US legislators must dig the hell out of violence.

Even if true, how does that establish causality? By definition,
murder/suicide perpetrators have to be highly depressed. Thus depression is
the most likely and obvious cause, shootings and taking prozac are both the
result. Depression causes shootings, with low probability; depression causes
taking prozac, with high probability. Thus, majority of shooters will have
been taking prozac, even when shooting and prozac ingestion is not casually
related.

Post a reply to this message

> Gunshops.

Never seen one before, I presume even if I did find one they wouldn't sell 
one to me without me first doing some training and sanity-checking?  And I 
assume also they wouldn't sell a gun to a school kid?

Post a reply to this message

And lo on Fri, 15 Feb 2008 13:40:27 -0000, scott <sco### [at] laptopcom> did  
spake, saying:

>> Gunshops.
>
> Never seen one before,

Just flicking through we've around a dozen listed in the Yellow Pages and  
around half-a-dozen in the Phone Book which covers a more localised area.  
I knew of two personally.

> I presume even if I did find one they wouldn't sell one to me without me  
> first doing some training and sanity-checking?

Nope, however you do require a Shotgun or Firearm Certificate from the  
police first; they're the ones who do the 'sanity checking'.

> And I assume also they wouldn't sell a gun to a school kid?

As an under-17 wouldn't be able to get a certificate that would be a  
correct assumption.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

alphaQuad wrote:

 > A bunch of pointless gobbeldygook that looks a lot like one of those
 > chain e-mails I dump from my inbox.

Wow. Paranoid much? Holy ... geezz. wow. I'm at a loss for words. Just 
wow. Mind control drugs? Are you serious?

Post a reply to this message

> Nope, however you do require a Shotgun or Firearm Certificate from the 
> police first; they're the ones who do the 'sanity checking'.
>
>> And I assume also they wouldn't sell a gun to a school kid?
>
> As an under-17 wouldn't be able to get a certificate that would be a 
> correct assumption.

So I still wonder about my original thoughts, all these shootings you hear 
about in the US, where do they get the guns from?  Parents? Friends? Bought 
illegally? Stolen from a shop?

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>> Nope, however you do require a Shotgun or Firearm Certificate from the
>> police first; they're the ones who do the 'sanity checking'.
>>
>>> And I assume also they wouldn't sell a gun to a school kid?
>>
>> As an under-17 wouldn't be able to get a certificate that would be a
>> correct assumption.
> 
> So I still wonder about my original thoughts, all these shootings you
> hear about in the US, where do they get the guns from?  Parents?
> Friends? Bought illegally? Stolen from a shop?
> 
> 

Depends on the event, but bought legally should be in there too. Not all
of these shootings have been by under-17 students.

The high school shootings, from what I've heard it's mostly guns that
the family has, or the kid's friends. The college shootings, they seem
to have purchased the weapons legally.

Post a reply to this message

alphaQuad wrote:
> If you cant realize that these drugs should have never been approved, then I
> waste my breath and time on you.
> 
> Do this or you become partially responsible for all future shootings. Ignoring
> this suggestion will be noticed by everyone watching all that goes on here and
> it will not be forgotten how scared and spineless you were to do what is right.

Psychiatric drugs are prescribed for a reason, and some how I don't
believe that every doctor writing those prescriptions is some how in the
pocket of the drug companies trying to get another person hooked on them
and profiting. Besides, simple economics will tell you that in most
cases, you don't sell stuff that kills the user.[1] And, you might check
your facts in your webpage, I don't believe Cho was on Prozac.

Secondly, don't start blaming everyone else. Why is this the fault of
someone in a completely different state and town, and not the fault of
some butterfly in China? The blame for these events rests in one person,
the one who pulled the trigger. We can all scream and rant about how
everyone else could have stopped them, how someone could have told the
police the day before if only they had noticed something, or how just
one detail different could have made the whole event not happen. But
that doesn't change any of it. One person pulled the trigger.


[1]Tobacco companies ignored, since they are profiting from one
substance only and are trying to sell that in any way they can.

Post a reply to this message