On 08/13/09 17:24, somebody wrote:
> magically become better or worse because it's public or private. Health care
> in both USA and Canada stinks, and the latter is public (and arguably stinks
> more, since well to do Canadians rely on USA for their timely health care
> needs). Granted, the private vs public or how much of each is a major

	And the Americans rely on India for their timely health care needs as well.

	Your point?
	
	I have an article sitting around here somewhere that claims that in 
Canada (or at least some of the provinces) if someone gets put on a very 
long waiting list, and the doctor feels that it could be really 
dangerous/fatal to wait that long, they're allowed to seek treatment 
elsewhere (e.g. US) and get refunded.

	Can't find a way to confirm it...

	The point being that the long wait times are not necessarily due to 
shortage of money, but due to shortage of doctors.

	And just as an FYI, health care in Canada is almost completely private. 
It's merely government funded. Doctors don't work for the government, 
though.

-- 
Doctor to patient: Although it's nothing serious, let's keep an eye on 
it to make sure it doesn't turn into a major lawsuit.

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On 08/13/09 17:48, Warp wrote:
>    At its core, capitalism is about free commerce, and it's precisely free
> commerce which keeps the cash flowing.

	In which direction?

-- 
Doctor to patient: Although it's nothing serious, let's keep an eye on 
it to make sure it doesn't turn into a major lawsuit.

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On 08/13/09 15:46, Jim Henderson wrote:
> It seems to me (being in favor of it, and no, I haven't read it either)
> that there are those who think that it should reformed as it is - nearly
> everybody agrees that what we have is broken, it's just a question of how
> best to fix it.

	Funny - I haven't heard any suggestions of alternatives from those who 
keep opposing it. Are you sure they agree it is broken?

> Those in favour of continuing private insurance, in my view, overlook
> that public health is, by definition, a public concern.  If we don't take
> care of individuals who get sick because they don't have insurance, we
> risk infecting everyone else.

	Not really. I'm betting most serious problems where people get hurt by 
private health care/insurance are not contagious.
	
	(And my sig was totally randomly picked. I swear!)

-- 
Doctor to patient: Although it's nothing serious, let's keep an eye on 
it to make sure it doesn't turn into a major lawsuit.

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On 08/13/09 16:56, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:45:54 -0400, Warp wrote:
>
>> most of them
>
> No, just the vocal ones who oppose it.  And maybe not communism, but
> socialism.

	How many of Americans who oppose it know the difference?

-- 
Doctor to patient: Although it's nothing serious, let's keep an eye on 
it to make sure it doesn't turn into a major lawsuit.

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They're not opposed to *national* health care (we already have that). 
They're opposed to *universal* health care.

-- 
Doctor to patient: Although it's nothing serious, let's keep an eye on 
it to make sure it doesn't turn into a major lawsuit.

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In article <4a848d62$1@news.povray.org>,
Jim Henderson wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:55:58 +0200, clipka wrote:
>
>> Jim Henderson schrieb:
>>> Then there are those who think capitalism is the answer to
>>> *everything*. "Let the market decide"
>> 
>> We're currently seeing where this leads to... but I'm sure there are
>> people who even think capitalism is the answer to the economic crisis...
>> >_<
>
> LOL!
>
> Capitalism and "self-regulation".  Isn't the latter what got us into this 
> mess in the first place (at least in part)?

What you mean (or what is meant) by self-regulation? Some effect of
free trade?

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In article <4a849ed4$1@news.povray.org>,
Neeum Zawan wrote:

> On 08/13/09 17:48, Warp wrote:
>>    At its core, capitalism is about free commerce, and it's precisely free
>> commerce which keeps the cash flowing.
>
> 	In which direction?

Good question. :-)

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On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:17:03 -0500, Neeum Zawan wrote:

> On 08/13/09 16:56, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:45:54 -0400, Warp wrote:
>>
>>> most of them
>>
>> No, just the vocal ones who oppose it.  And maybe not communism, but
>> socialism.
> 
> 	How many of Americans who oppose it know the difference?

Probably not many - it's probably in the bucket of "not capitalism" 
bucket and so, by definition, "bad".

Jim

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On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:02:08 -0400, Daniel Bastos wrote:

>> Capitalism and "self-regulation".  Isn't the latter what got us into
>> this mess in the first place (at least in part)?
> 
> What you mean (or what is meant) by self-regulation? Some effect of free
> trade?

Self-regulation means that the industry regulates itself, or provides 
"guidance" to the regulating body by making up the rules for themselves.

So, in the case of the banking industry, there are allegations (I don't 
know whether they're true or not, but I have my suspicions) that many of 
the banking regulations in place now were written by people in the 
banking industry.  Thus, they set rules that allowed them to get away 
with the shenanigans that got us into our current economic situation.

Jim

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On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:24:17 -0600, somebody wrote:

> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:4a847bbd$1@news.povray.org...
> 
>> Those in favour of continuing private insurance, in my view, overlook
>> that public health is, by definition, a public concern.  If we don't
>> take care of individuals who get sick because they don't have
>> insurance, we risk infecting everyone else.
> 
> I think people on all sides miss the real issues. Health care doesn't
> magically become better or worse because it's public or private. Health

Agreed.

> care in both USA and Canada stinks, and the latter is public (and
> arguably stinks more, since well to do Canadians rely on USA for their
> timely health care needs). Granted, the private vs public or how much of
> each is a major decision, but the quality is all in the implementation,
> economy, management, logistics... etc.

Absolutely 100% agreed.

Jim

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