Neeum Zawan wrote:
>     For context, [...]

>     Actually, sometimes the insurance company more or less forces the 
> employers to drop insurance or go elsewhere.

Or to drop the problematic employee, yes.

Of course it's more complex. I'm just saying it's different than shopping 
for other stuff, in ways that capitalism generally doesn't account for. 
Complaining that a "public option" is therefor uncapitalistic is not 
necessarily a bad thing. It would be like complaining that the government is 
paying for the military instead of letting individuals buy whatever military 
coverage they feel is appropriate.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
    back to version 1.0."
   "We've done that already. We call it 2.0."

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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:50:57 -0600, somebody wrote:

> "Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message
> news:4a88b8fd$1@news.povray.org...
> 
>> 2 - Your health is worth virtually anything you own.
> 
> Not by a long shot. If that were the case, we would not smoke, eat more
> than necessary or unhealthy, work under hazardous conditions, drive,
> skydive, sit in front of a computer 10 hours a day... etc. We would
> instead spend all our time and money on our health.

It isn't urgent until you get an incurable disease.  Then most people are 
willing to spend whatever it takes to "get better" or to at least prolong 
their lives.

>> How much of your personal wealth would you spend to cure your cancer?
> 
> If cure were certain? For as it is, I don't see many patients spending
> their entire wealth on treatment (not that I believe certain cure would
> change that either).

Most who opt for treatment *have* to spend their entire wealth on 
treatment, especially if the insurance company decides it's a "pre-
existing condition", and I've heard of that happening.

Jim

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> But it's often the case that young healthy people will buy (say) only 
> catastrophic health insurance (covering costs >$5000 perhaps),

That makes sense, I've not seen anything like that in Europe, generally 
private medical insurance will cover everything, from 5 minute visits to the 
doctors and packs of pills right up to full blown operations and weeks in 
hospital.  And from my experience all the people that have this kind of 
insurance are generally healthy.

OOC what do pregnant women do?  Surely they must rack up a fair amount of 
cost with all the visits to the doctor and hospital?  Do they pay for this 
themselves?

>> OK, if you get treated anyway without insurance then why do even the 
>> unhealthy people bother paying for insurance?  Who currently pays for the 
>> uninsured people to get treated?
>
> The hospitals. That's why so many hospitals are closing their emergency 
> rooms.

Ah I see, surely having emergency rooms at hospitals is a fairly fundamental 
thing for a developed country to have, shouldn't the government be at least 
partly funding the operation of these to make sure everyone has one within a 
certain time/distance?  Non-urgent operations and other minor stuff are a 
different matter.

> The situations I'm aware of, the chronic condition happened after the 
> person had already been getting insurance from the employer. The victims 
> couldn't change jobs (because then it would become a "pre-existing 
> condition", and the employer's premiums obviously went up some, but that 
> got spread out amongst all the employees, which is the point of insurance.

Oh ok, so if it's being paid by your employer you can't ever change 
jobs...hmmmm.

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scott wrote:
>> But it's often the case that young healthy people will buy (say) only 
>> catastrophic health insurance (covering costs >$5000 perhaps),
> 
> That makes sense, I've not seen anything like that in Europe, 

I'm not surprised. :-)

> OOC what do pregnant women do?  Surely they must rack up a fair amount 
> of cost with all the visits to the doctor and hospital?  Do they pay for 
> this themselves?

I've never been pregnant.  Some things are covered, some things aren't.

> Ah I see, surely having emergency rooms at hospitals is a fairly 
> fundamental thing for a developed country to have, shouldn't the 
> government be at least partly funding the operation of these to make 
> sure everyone has one within a certain time/distance?  Non-urgent 
> operations and other minor stuff are a different matter.

One would think, yes. In this case, insurance and health care are unrelated, 
so it's not getting discussed.

> Oh ok, so if it's being paid by your employer you can't ever change 
> jobs...hmmmm.

Basically, yes. Sucks. I think part of that is being worked on. Since I knew 
people in that situation, I think laws were passed saying that if you were 
previously covered for it within X months ago, it can't be considered a 
pre-existing condition. One even gets paperwork now when leaving a job 
saying one was covered up until a particular date.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
    back to version 1.0."
   "We've done that already. We call it 2.0."

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Stephen wrote:
> OK I know that not all Americans feel that way but it seems that the majority of
> vocal ones do.

Great commentary on this:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=111256528714&ref=nf

Kind of what I was saying, re insurance being socialist.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Understanding the structure of the universe
    via religion is like understanding the
     structure of computers via Tron.

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Great commentary on this:

> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=111256528714&ref=nf

> Kind of what I was saying, re insurance being socialist.

  It makes a good point. Fire trucks are red, and red is the symbolic
color of communism.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:08:29 -0700, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:

>Stephen wrote:
>> OK I know that not all Americans feel that way but it seems that the majority of
>> vocal ones do.
>
>Great commentary on this:
>
>http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=111256528714&ref=nf
>
>Kind of what I was saying, re insurance being socialist.

I'm at a loss for words. This is a joke, right? Please tell me this is a spoof.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 08/23/09 09:49, Stephen wrote:
> I'm at a loss for words. This is a joke, right? Please tell me this is a spoof.

	I'm pretty sure:

a) That there *are* people who want the FD to be privatized.

b) That this is a parody. The link on the page goes to his twitter 
account. See this tweet:

https://twitter.com/angrytownhall/status/3445809772

-- 
"Graphic Artist seeks Boss with vision impairment."

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On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 10:09:04 -0500, Neeum Zawan <m.n### [at] ieeeorg> wrote:

>On 08/23/09 09:49, Stephen wrote:
>> I'm at a loss for words. This is a joke, right? Please tell me this is a spoof.
>
>	I'm pretty sure:
>
>a) That there *are* people who want the FD to be privatized.
>

May they burn in Hell!

>b) That this is a parody. The link on the page goes to his twitter 
>account. See this tweet:
>
>https://twitter.com/angrytownhall/status/3445809772

Phew! Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. :)

I'm maybe a tad sensitive about fire fighters as my father was a fireman and I
was brought up and lived in a fire station for about twenty years. 
(Sense of humour failure)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Stephen wrote:
> 
> Phew! Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. :)
> 

You don't know what this life is all about.

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