Patrick Elliott <sel### [at] rraznet> wrote:
> Are you really missing the point that for people that don't believe in
> God, or even just **your god**, telling them "bless you" **is** the same
> thing as saying "fuck you"?

no, I don't understand how wishing for one's well-being is the same as cursing
them.  You don't need to believe in what I believe to benefit from best wishes.

I can understand it, though, in the light of we living in a fucked up, imoral
world.  People without directions in their lifes tend to see everything as gray
rather than black and white.  it's all the same for them, so not surprising at
all...

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Patrick Elliott <sel### [at] rraznet> wrote:
> But that wouldn't matter anyway. I am sure you can do a google and find
> plenty of modern historians, many of them *specifically* studying
> Biblical history, that are uncertain, or actively disbelieve, that
> Jesus, as described in the Bible, ever existed. Its practically common
> knowledge that they hold this view.

that's funny.  From one side historians holding that Jesus never existed (in
fact, many have been saying that even from early times very close to those
days).  From another side, James Cameron and crew "discovered" the lost thomb
of Jesus and his wife Mary Magdalene.  From the realm of fiction, we get "Da
Vinci's Code" which seems to support the documentary view that Christ was not
only very real, as very human to the point of having had sons with Mary
Magdalene and did not ressurect in flesh or at all.  Who do you believe?  it's
a matter of faith, again...

I smell a massive "campaign" against Christianism and religions as a whole as
well.  Many Jews lost their faith and are now regarding the OT as merely
legends and folk history.  They did not lose their will to conquer and get
wealthy, though.  Islamic countries are bombarded and their peoples encaged.
Lots of bad things are going through the world these days.  Some would say
we're approaching the end.  all in the name of free will...

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I just KNEW this thread seemed familiar...

Sorry folks, but the issue was previously decided here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBEP5c-SUEQ

(Enjoy)

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Patrick Elliott <sel### [at] rraznet> wrote:
> you can't open a church without
> attracting pedophiles, lunatics and crazy people like flies to a corpse.

Jesus preached for humble people, fishers, prostitutes and the mentally or
bodily ill.  Those people have every bit as much right to salvation as you.
maybe even more so...

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nemesis wrote:
> what a fucked up world!  One in which asking for someone's well being is
> comparable to worshipping the Enemy.

He may be *your* enemy. He's my saturday morning cartoon.

Hey, why be offended? I have good intentions....

> please, take your medicine, dude...

This coming from the man with invisible friends who talk back? ;-)

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     It's not feature creep if you put it
     at the end and adjust the release date.

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nemesis wrote:
> no, I don't understand how wishing for one's well-being is the same as cursing
> them.  You don't need to believe in what I believe to benefit from best wishes.

Yeah, actually, you kinda do. But that's OK.

> I can understand it, though, in the light of we living in a fucked up, imoral
> world.  People without directions in their lifes tend to see everything as gray
> rather than black and white.  it's all the same for them, so not surprising at
> all...

Whereas you, so enlightened over those poor stupid ignorant atheists, 
you will intervene on behalf of them with the universe, in order to save 
them from their poor useless hopeless immoral and directionless lives.

Thanks so much for that. :-)

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     It's not feature creep if you put it
     at the end and adjust the release date.

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nemesis wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> nemesis wrote:
>>> I can't "save" you.  Just ask for it.
>> Why do I need to ask for it? I'm baptised.
> 
> baptism won't save you if you don't believe.

I see. So like 2/3'rds of the world are sentenced to hell by your loving 
god? Cool.

>>> free will?!  Do you live in a palace?  Do you have several women?  Do you have a
>>> PS3, a home theather with 42' HDTV and Dolby Digital?  Do you kill your boss
>>> when you're fed up?  neither do I...
>> You don't understand what Free Will means, do you?  Or are you implying
>> that somehow atheists *don't* have free will? I'm confused.
> 
> I'm implying that I have just about as much free will by following God's laws as
> he does by following men's laws.

Ah? Um, OK. Not sure what HDTV has to do with that, but OK.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     It's not feature creep if you put it
     at the end and adjust the release date.

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nemesis wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> nemesis wrote:
>>> I was not comparing JHVH to Ra, Zeus or anything.  Just stating that, regardless
>>> of the different divine personas the pagans applied to represent the forces of
>>> nature, the one true God is the one who really rules over the many different
>>> forces of nature.
>> So, the satanists are really worshiping the same God that you do? As
>> well as the Mayans doing human sacrifice?
> 
> no, I'm saying they misinterpreted God's actions and began making up their own
> idols to represent the many facets of what can't be physically represented.
> One of the reasons why God wanted to wipe out life from Earth.

So they *aren't* worshiping the same God? Yet whoever they're worshiping 
is doing miracles?

I mean, look, all the religions who had other miracles: either it was 
JHVH doing the miracles, or it wasn't. You seem to be saying "it really 
was JHVH doing the miracles when people prayed to Apollo, but instead of 
just not answering people praying to the wrong gods, JHVH decided to 
answer them, encourage them, and then KILL THEM ALL, even tho they'd 
never actually heard of JHVH."  Or am I misinterpreting what you're saying?

> don't put the satanists on the same level as the pagan gods:  the satanists
> worship the wrong side of the same Islamic/Christian/Jewish faith,

How can it be the wrong side? Satan has no free will, and is less 
powerful than God, yet God allows him to exist and to try to lead humans 
astray.

> the pagans just didn't know any better.

Ah. Yes. Wow. I'm yet again stunned by your hubris. I don't think in all 
my years of talking about religion I've ever had someone tell me that I 
really am worshiping their god, I just don't know it.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     It's not feature creep if you put it
     at the end and adjust the release date.

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> He may be *your* enemy. He's my saturday morning cartoon.

yes, corrupting kids like that is a good start.

> Hey, why be offended? I have good intentions....

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

> This coming from the man with invisible friends who talk back? ;-)

God doesn't speak to me or you in human words, but in actions.

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Thanks so much for that. :-)

hey!  you're welcome! :)

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