On 12/09/2010 01:21 PM, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> 2. I want to build a file tree where you can collapse or expand tree
> nodes. The obvious way to do this is with the <ul> element. However, I
> also want each file to have attributes, a creation date, and so forth,
> and all these columns should line up vertically. The obvious way to do
> that is with a table. But it can't be a table and a list at the same time!
>
> I could use nested tables I suppose, but nested tables are EVIL! Is
> there some more semantically-transparent way that I can do this?
>
> Root 2009-09-12 Ahsc
> Resources 2009-09-10 Ahsc
> Main.css 2009-09-10 Ahsc
> Main.js 2009-09-10 Ahsc
> Packages 2009-09-12 Ahsc
> ansi-terminal 2009-09-12 Ahsc
> ...

Facepalm moment: Using CSS, you can render any element AS A TABLE! >_<

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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And lo On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 21:59:13 +0100, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull>  
did spake thusly:

> On 12/09/2010 01:21 PM, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>
>> 2. I want to build a file tree where you can collapse or expand tree
>> nodes. The obvious way to do this is with the <ul> element. However, I
>> also want each file to have attributes, a creation date, and so forth,
>> and all these columns should line up vertically. The obvious way to do
>> that is with a table. But it can't be a table and a list at the same  
>> time!
>>
>> I could use nested tables I suppose, but nested tables are EVIL! Is
>> there some more semantically-transparent way that I can do this?
>>
>> Root 2009-09-12 Ahsc
>> Resources 2009-09-10 Ahsc
>> Main.css 2009-09-10 Ahsc
>> Main.js 2009-09-10 Ahsc
>> Packages 2009-09-12 Ahsc
>> ansi-terminal 2009-09-12 Ahsc
>> ...
>
> Facepalm moment: Using CSS, you can render any element AS A TABLE! >_<

Well yeah that was going to be my first response, but you wanted the  
columns offset within rows and that would have ended up just as messy as  
absolute positioning.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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>> Facepalm moment: Using CSS, you can render any element AS A TABLE! >_<
>
> Well yeah that was going to be my first response, but you wanted the
> columns offset within rows and that would have ended up just as messy as
> absolute positioning.

Well, I can make it so that a <ul> who's <li> elements contain multiple 
<span> tags gets rendered as a regular table. What I *cannot* do is make 
nested <ul> elements render correctly. Not for love nor money.

I can, however, take a <table> and annotate each <tr> with a style class 
indicating how far to indent it, and get a result that looks exactly 
like what I want.

So I have a choice here: The information I want to present is 
semantically tabular *and* hierarchical. I can mark it up as <ul> (which 
lets be expose the hierarchy but hides the tabular nature in <span> 
tags), or I can mark it up as <table> (which exposes the tabular 
structure but hides the hierarchy in style class declarations).

I think I'm going to go with <table>, simply because it lets me actually 
achieve the rendering result I want. Sure, tables are evil. OTOH, my 
data actually *is* a table! So putting it in <table> isn't that much of 
a hack.

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And lo On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 10:35:08 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake thusly:

> I think I'm going to go with <table>, simply because it lets me actually  
> achieve the rendering result I want. Sure, tables are evil. OTOH, my  
> data actually *is* a table! So putting it in <table> isn't that much of  
> a hack.

Well yeah if it's tabular data present it in a table nothing evil about  
that well unless you're going to use nested tables just for display  
purposes that's frowned upon; and if you're not then you're going to have  
to style every single cell and that's just messy.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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On 22/09/2010 10:50 AM, Phil Cook v2 wrote:
> And lo On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 10:35:08 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did
> spake thusly:
>
>> I think I'm going to go with <table>, simply because it lets me
>> actually achieve the rendering result I want. Sure, tables are evil.
>> OTOH, my data actually *is* a table! So putting it in <table> isn't
>> that much of a hack.
>
> Well yeah if it's tabular data present it in a table nothing evil about
> that well unless you're going to use nested tables just for display
> purposes that's frowned upon; and if you're not then you're going to
> have to style every single cell and that's just messy.

Nested tables won't even help me here. And no, I don't need to style 
every single cell. I just style each row (so I can get alternating 
colours) and each cell in column 1 (so I can set the indent). And since 
the whole table will be machine-generated anyway...

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On 22/09/2010 10:52 AM, Invisible wrote:

> Nested tables won't even help me here. And no, I don't need to style
> every single cell. I just style each row (so I can get alternating
> colours) and each cell in column 1 (so I can set the indent). And since
> the whole table will be machine-generated anyway...

Only remaining problem is how to expand/collapse subtrees (now that a 
subtree isn't a single XML element any more). I'm sure it's solvable.

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And lo On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 10:52:30 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake thusly:

> On 22/09/2010 10:50 AM, Phil Cook v2 wrote:
>> And lo On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 10:35:08 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did
>> spake thusly:
>>
>>> I think I'm going to go with <table>, simply because it lets me
>>> actually achieve the rendering result I want. Sure, tables are evil.
>>> OTOH, my data actually *is* a table! So putting it in <table> isn't
>>> that much of a hack.
>>
>> Well yeah if it's tabular data present it in a table nothing evil about
>> that well unless you're going to use nested tables just for display
>> purposes that's frowned upon; and if you're not then you're going to
>> have to style every single cell and that's just messy.
>
> Nested tables won't even help me here. And no, I don't need to style  
> every single cell. I just style each row (so I can get alternating  
> colours) and each cell in column 1 (so I can set the indent). And since  
> the whole table will be machine-generated anyway...

tr:nth-child(odd){background-color:red;}
tr:nth-child(even){background-color:blue;}

Seeing as you don't care about IE :-)

As for column 1 styling how will that line up the dates? You'll need to  
line up column 1 of rows 2 and 5, and then column 1 of rows 3, 4, and 6  
and then do the same for column 2.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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>> Nested tables won't even help me here. And no, I don't need to style
>> every single cell. I just style each row (so I can get alternating
>> colours) and each cell in column 1 (so I can set the indent). And
>> since the whole table will be machine-generated anyway...
>
> tr:nth-child(odd){background-color:red;}
> tr:nth-child(even){background-color:blue;}
>
> Seeing as you don't care about IE :-)

That works? Impressive... (As you say, it's only taken 10 years!)

> As for column 1 styling how will that line up the dates? You'll need to
> line up column 1 of rows 2 and 5, and then column 1 of rows 3, 4, and 6
> and then do the same for column 2.

Just adjust the padding property for column one. The other columns 
automatically line up, the way they always do in a table.

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And lo On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 11:34:03 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake thusly:

>> As for column 1 styling how will that line up the dates? You'll need to
>> line up column 1 of rows 2 and 5, and then column 1 of rows 3, 4, and 6
>> and then do the same for column 2.
>
> Just adjust the padding property for column one. The other columns  
> automatically line up, the way they always do in a table.

Well would you look at that. You learn something new every day.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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On 22/09/2010 02:05 PM, Phil Cook v2 wrote:
> And lo On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 11:34:03 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did
> spake thusly:
>
>>> As for column 1 styling how will that line up the dates? You'll need to
>>> line up column 1 of rows 2 and 5, and then column 1 of rows 3, 4, and 6
>>> and then do the same for column 2.
>>
>> Just adjust the padding property for column one. The other columns
>> automatically line up, the way they always do in a table.
>
> Well would you look at that. You learn something new every day.

See, that's what's so awesome about this newsgroup. ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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