scott wrote:
> Are there any exits for gas stations?  If not you want to be making sure 
> you have enough fuel too!

Nope, nothing. It's freeway with blocked off-ramps into farm fields.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

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On 06/08/10 20:02, Jim Charter wrote:
> Yes historically different things have been tried and particular roads
> have been/are posted to reserve the left lane as a high speed lane or
> passing lane.  On steep grades the left lane is often reserved for

	To clarify, in Illinois, you are allowed to drive on the left lane if
no one is behind you. In some states, you just can't - unless you're
overtaking.

> idea that in the general case they have some basic human right to drive
> over the speed limit in the left lane and someone driving the limit in
> the left lane is breaking the law.

	They may not have the right to overtake at higher than the speed limit,
but at least in Illinois, if you're on the left lane (interstate)
driving at the speed limit, and the guy behind you is driving above the
speed limit, you're required by law to switch to the right lane (i.e.
the fact that his actions are breaking the law is not relevant to your
responsibility to yield to him).

-- 
Outside a Muffler Shop:
"No appointment necessary. We hear you coming."

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Neeum Zawan wrote:
> On 06/08/10 20:02, Jim Charter wrote:
>> Yes historically different things have been tried and particular roads
>> have been/are posted to reserve the left lane as a high speed lane or
>> passing lane.  On steep grades the left lane is often reserved for
> 
> 	To clarify, in Illinois, you are allowed to drive on the left lane if
> no one is behind you. In some states, you just can't - unless you're
> overtaking.
> 

Thanks for the clarification. Yes I see the shift in emphasis.  And the 
question I should have asked earlier.  You are saying that this is true 
just on the Interstate if I understand correctly.  Is that how it is 
specified in the Traffic Code, that this applies to the interstate, or 
is it posted on the roadway itself, or both?   I should have asked you 
that earlier, how the information is being disseminated.  The interstate 
is precisely where you would get a lot of out-of-state drivers, of course.

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>> I don't follow your logic here, if you're leaving a 4 second gap to the 
>> car immediately ahead, you still have a 4 second gap no matter what the 
>> people are doing ahead of you.
>
> You answered your own question:
>
> > Of course in reality cars don't just instantly stop for no reason,
>
> They do if they run into the person in front of them who is also already 
> stopped.

Sure, and you have a 4 second gap so can come almost to a complete stop 
without hitting them.  Even if the guy behind you is only leaving a 0.5 
second gap, he is *not* going to be faced with a stationary car in 0.5 s, he 
is going to be faced with you braking hard, which is vastly easier to deal 
with and will result in a lot less damage if he does hit you.

> If *everybody* fixes those two issues, there's no pile-up. If you're car 
> #150 of 300, it doesn't much matter whether you hit the guy in front if 
> the guys behind you don't leave enough root to stop.

Taken to the extreme, assume everyone is leaving a 0.5 second gap, but you 
are the only one leaving a 10 second gap.  When you see the cars ahead 
piling up, you have plenty of space to start off braking gently and come to 
a stop, the cars behind you are far less likely to pile into the back of 
you, so you have essentially stopped the pile-up continuing by leaving a big 
gap.  It might start again further back up the road if everyone is so close, 
but at least your car is not going to be damaged so badly by the guy 
directly behind smashing into you.

> Yes. Sadly, most people around here are really bad drivers.

Here in Germany the average seems to be a pretty high standard, but you 
still get the odd few.

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scott wrote:
> Sure, and you have a 4 second gap so can come almost to a complete stop 
> without hitting them.  Even if the guy behind you is only leaving a 0.5 
> second gap, he is *not* going to be faced with a stationary car in 0.5 
> s,

No, he's going to be faced with a stationary car in 3.5 seconds. And the guy 
have a second behind him will be faces with a stationary car in 3 seconds. 
Then 2.5.  Etc.  See what I'm saying?

By slamming into the person in front of you, you have eliminated the braking 
time you're claiming protects the person behind you.

> Taken to the extreme, assume everyone is leaving a 0.5 second gap, but 
> you are the only one leaving a 10 second gap. 

Yep.

>> Yes. Sadly, most people around here are really bad drivers.
> 
> Here in Germany the average seems to be a pretty high standard, but you 
> still get the odd few.

My main peeve is most people just don't look ahead, at least on the east 
coast. On the west coast, they seem a bit better.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

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On 06/09/10 23:06, Jim Charter wrote:
> just on the Interstate if I understand correctly.  Is that how it is
> specified in the Traffic Code, that this applies to the interstate, or
> is it posted on the roadway itself, or both?   I should have asked you
> that earlier, how the information is being disseminated.  The interstate
> is precisely where you would get a lot of out-of-state drivers, of course.

	It's in the official handbook you use to study for the written test.

-- 
Outside a Muffler Shop:
"No appointment necessary. We hear you coming."

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>> Sure, and you have a 4 second gap so can come almost to a complete stop 
>> without hitting them.  Even if the guy behind you is only leaving a 0.5 
>> second gap, he is *not* going to be faced with a stationary car in 0.5 s,
>
> No, he's going to be faced with a stationary car in 3.5 seconds.

How come?  Even if he continues at a constant speed he's not going to reach 
the stopped car for 4.5 seconds, but I assume he's going to start braking a 
bit after he sees the car ahead braking.

> And the guy have a second behind him will be faces with a stationary car 
> in 3 seconds. Then 2.5.  Etc.  See what I'm saying?

Sure, but in most cases people can deal braking normally and stop without 
crashing.  It's only once one person has crashed, then suddenly everyone 
behind has to stop a lot faster so it kind of chain reactions back.  It then 
only takes one car leaving a bigger gap to "reset" the chain reaction and 
then people behind can brake in a normal manner again.

> By slamming into the person in front of you, you have eliminated the 
> braking time you're claiming protects the person behind you.

Yes, but my whole point is if you leave a 4 second gap you are massively 
reducing the chances that you slam into the person in front.

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scott wrote:
> Sure, but in most cases people can deal braking normally and stop 
> without crashing.  It's only once one person has crashed, then suddenly 
> everyone behind has to stop a lot faster so it kind of chain reactions 
> back. 

That's what I'm talking about, yes.

> It then only takes one car leaving a bigger gap to "reset" the 
> chain reaction and then people behind can brake in a normal manner again.

And that's why it's a good idea for it to be *you* leaving the bigger gap, 
yes? :-)

> Yes, but my whole point is if you leave a 4 second gap you are massively 
> reducing the chances that you slam into the person in front.

Well, sure.  I guess that's a reasonable gap.

Around here, I see lines of five to ten people all driving so close I 
couldn't parallel park between them if they were stopped. That's just assinine.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Eiffel - The language that lets you specify exactly
    that the code does what you think it does, even if
    it doesn't do what you wanted.

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Neeum Zawan wrote:
> On 06/09/10 23:06, Jim Charter wrote:
>> just on the Interstate if I understand correctly.  Is that how it is
>> specified in the Traffic Code, that this applies to the interstate, or
>> is it posted on the roadway itself, or both?   I should have asked you
>> that earlier, how the information is being disseminated.  The interstate
>> is precisely where you would get a lot of out-of-state drivers, of course.
> 
> 	It's in the official handbook you use to study for the written test.
> 

Tough on out of state drivers

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On 06/13/10 12:20, Jim Charter wrote:
>>     It's in the official handbook you use to study for the written test.
>>
> Tough on out of state drivers

	I doubt it's ever enforced.

-- 
Clairvoiant meeting canceled due to unforseen events.

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