Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> They should at least stop putting misinformation in the documentation like 
> "you can't delete open files in Windows" or "Windows doesn't have links". 
> That's just plain wrong. The minimum would be to phrase it as "we don't open 
> files in a mode that allows them to be deleted while open" and "we don't 
> support links in Windows".

  It's an open source project. You can contribute.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> They should at least stop putting misinformation in the documentation like 
>> "you can't delete open files in Windows" or "Windows doesn't have links". 
>> That's just plain wrong. The minimum would be to phrase it as "we don't open 
>> files in a mode that allows them to be deleted while open" and "we don't 
>> support links in Windows".
> 
>   It's an open source project. You can contribute.

Wow, really?? Thanks, Warp! I didn't know that!

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Human nature dictates that toothpaste tubes spend
   much longer being almost empty than almost full.

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> They should at least stop putting misinformation in the documentation like 
> "you can't delete open files in Windows" or "Windows doesn't have links". 
> That's just plain wrong. The minimum would be to phrase it as "we don't 
> open files in a mode that allows them to be deleted while open" and "we 
> don't

Darren, how do you delete an OS-locked file or directory under Windows XP? 
Can you point me to an api-call?

This is NOT meant as a tease, I am really interested in a solution to this 
problem, if you know it.

About the links: yes, windows does indeed support links. I do not dare to 
use them anymore. I tried once, but since people don't expect hard links 
under Windows to some it came as a nasty surprise when they discovered the 
doublettes they thought they were deleting were the actually hard linked 
files...

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Darren New wrote:
> Warp wrote:
>> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>>> They should at least stop putting misinformation in the documentation 
>>> like "you can't delete open files in Windows" or "Windows doesn't 
>>> have links". That's just plain wrong. The minimum would be to phrase 
>>> it as "we don't open files in a mode that allows them to be deleted 
>>> while open" and "we don't support links in Windows".
>>
>>   It's an open source project. You can contribute.
> 
> Wow, really?? Thanks, Warp! I didn't know that!

Wait, wait!  I have an even better idea!

I can go around the internet and correct *everyone* who says something 
wrong! I'm sure that will improve the world and make me loved and respected 
everywhere!

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Human nature dictates that toothpaste tubes spend
   much longer being almost empty than almost full.

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TC wrote:
> Darren, how do you delete an OS-locked file or directory under Windows XP? 

You don't lock it.  It's not that you can't delete an *open* file. You can't 
delete an open file that was opened with the "don't let others write to this 
while I have it open" flag.  The program opening the file has to open it in 
a way that lets you delete it, which is why I'm saying I'm surprised that 
(for example) the usual C runtimes don't default to setting this flag, since 
that's the default under UNIX.

The primary problem is that the call to run a program opens the file with 
that lock, in part because it pages out of the file while it's running. The 
file gets locked because to delete a file in Windows you actually have to 
open the file for delete, which requires write privileges. Opening an 
executing file for writing doesn't work under Windows *or* UNIX, but you 
don't have to open the file under UNIX to delete it.

Alternately, you can stick stuff in the registry that'll delete the file (or 
rename it) next time the machine is booted, before all the code that tends 
to hold files open runs, if that's what you mean.

> Can you point me to an api-call?

It's just a normal delete.

> About the links: yes, windows does indeed support links. I do not dare to 
> use them anymore. I tried once, but since people don't expect hard links 
> under Windows to some it came as a nasty surprise when they discovered the 
> doublettes they thought they were deleting were the actually hard linked 
> files... 

Well, yes. That's not a good reason for a programming environment not to use 
them. It's just a good reason to be careful how you expose that to your 
users. :-)

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Human nature dictates that toothpaste tubes spend
   much longer being almost empty than almost full.

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Darren New wrote:
> Somehow, I always find it amusing how many FOSS programs assume Windows 
> is basically how it was in Win98 and completely fail to do the right thing.

...which does, on the other hand, have the side-effect of making it 
compatible with Win98. ;-)

> which in other words means "we haven't bothered to find the API call 
> that tells you where a particular user's home directory is in Windows, 

Or, more likely, "we just took our C sources and recompiled them on top 
of a POSIX emulator, so we can't do anything that POSIX doesn't support 
/ the emulator doesn't implement".

> And some people wonder why FOSS feels klunky on Windows.

Heh, well, the *really* fun thing is when you have to install GTK+ 
before the program will run... We all know what happens then. ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> > Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> >> They should at least stop putting misinformation in the documentation like 
> >> "you can't delete open files in Windows" or "Windows doesn't have links". 
> >> That's just plain wrong. The minimum would be to phrase it as "we don't open 
> >> files in a mode that allows them to be deleted while open" and "we don't 
> >> support links in Windows".
> > 
> >   It's an open source project. You can contribute.

> Wow, really?? Thanks, Warp! I didn't know that!

  And then you criticize me when I use sarcasm.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> Warp wrote:
>>> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>>>> They should at least stop putting misinformation in the documentation like 
>>>> "you can't delete open files in Windows" or "Windows doesn't have links". 
>>>> That's just plain wrong. The minimum would be to phrase it as "we don't open 
>>>> files in a mode that allows them to be deleted while open" and "we don't 
>>>> support links in Windows".
>>>   It's an open source project. You can contribute.
> 
>> Wow, really?? Thanks, Warp! I didn't know that!
> 
>   And then you criticize me when I use sarcasm.

No, I criticize you for not making it obvious enough. For the record. :-)

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Human nature dictates that toothpaste tubes spend
   much longer being almost empty than almost full.

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> Somehow, I always find it amusing how many FOSS programs assume 
>> Windows is basically how it was in Win98 and completely fail to do the 
>> right thing.
> 
> ...which does, on the other hand, have the side-effect of making it 
> compatible with Win98. ;-)

One might think that, but that tends not to be the case. In part, for 
example, it'll support things like memory-mapped files and etc. as well.

> Or, more likely, "we just took our C sources and recompiled them on top 
> of a POSIX emulator, so we can't do anything that POSIX doesn't support 
> / the emulator doesn't implement".

Yes. Altho I don't think that's really the case. Tcl, for example, has a 
whole X-windows emulation built in. That's why it's (a) somewhat slow, (b) 
tends to look like Motif, and (c) gets used everywhere as a graphics library 
for other languages. :-)

Come to think of it, one of the nice things about Tcl is how much people 
have made extensions for accessing Windows-like stuff.  Considering this, I 
expect I can find Python (for example) extensions to Do The Right Thing.

It really wasn't a complaint, as much as it was a "I wonder why people don't 
fix this when they do it in the first place" sort of thought. Sort of "if 
you're going to try to invent an algorithm to figure out where the home 
directory is, why not just ask the OS". If it was completely unsupported, I 
could see it, but to have it half-ass supported is ... half-ass.

Maybe I'm just getting sick of half-assed technology, tho.

>> And some people wonder why FOSS feels klunky on Windows.
> 
> Heh, well, the *really* fun thing is when you have to install GTK+ 
> before the program will run... We all know what happens then. ;-)

Actually, I don't think I do.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Human nature dictates that toothpaste tubes spend
   much longer being almost empty than almost full.

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>> Or, more likely, "we just took our C sources and recompiled them on 
>> top of a POSIX emulator, so we can't do anything that POSIX doesn't 
>> support / the emulator doesn't implement".
> 
> Yes. Altho I don't think that's really the case.

It is sometimes.

Like, there are several CLI tools which are just recompiled against 
Cygwin to make a "Windows port", and you find that all sorts of strange 
things break when you do that.

> Maybe I'm just getting sick of half-assed technology, tho.

I know *I* am. But it's not like you can do anything about it... I used 
to think you could, but apparently you can't.

>>> And some people wonder why FOSS feels klunky on Windows.
>>
>> Heh, well, the *really* fun thing is when you have to install GTK+ 
>> before the program will run... We all know what happens then. ;-)
> 
> Actually, I don't think I do.

...the program uses the GTK+ look and feel, rather than behaving like a 
native Windows application?

Than again, on Linux it seems each program has its own totally different 
look and feel, so...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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