>> Unix software, on the other hand, seems to regard giant text files (all
>> with a completely different format) as the *primary* means of
>> configuration, and a GUI as secondary to that.
> 
> Let me introduce you to YaST....Before I started using it, I didn't like 
> the idea of it, but now that I'm used to it, guess what - I don't have to 
> tweak all these different configuration files, because it handles it for 
> me most of the time.

The problem is, Unix has _always_ been designed around the idea that 
everything is a text file and that's how you configure the entire 
system. Sure, these days we have pretty front ends that atempt to hide 
all the complexity. But as soon as you need to edit something there 
isn't a front-end for, or the text file contains some setting that the 
fancy front-end doesn't comprehend... suddenly you need to know how all 
this stuff works again.

Windows, on the other hand, has always been designed around the idea 
that the user doesn't know anything about computers and needs to be 
shielded from anything more complicated than a lightswitch. Which is 
sometimes quite frustrating, in a different way...

I think XKCD sums it up nicely:

http://www.xkcd.com/619/

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On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:30:43 +0000, Invisible wrote:

>>> Unix software, on the other hand, seems to regard giant text files
>>> (all with a completely different format) as the *primary* means of
>>> configuration, and a GUI as secondary to that.
>> 
>> Let me introduce you to YaST....Before I started using it, I didn't
>> like the idea of it, but now that I'm used to it, guess what - I don't
>> have to tweak all these different configuration files, because it
>> handles it for me most of the time.
> 
> The problem is, Unix has _always_ been designed around the idea that
> everything is a text file and that's how you configure the entire
> system. Sure, these days we have pretty front ends that atempt to hide
> all the complexity. But as soon as you need to edit something there
> isn't a front-end for, or the text file contains some setting that the
> fancy front-end doesn't comprehend... suddenly you need to know how all
> this stuff works again.

Allow me (again) to introduce you to YaST, or Webmin.  I've found very 
little that these two frontends won't configure properly.

> Windows, on the other hand, has always been designed around the idea
> that the user doesn't know anything about computers and needs to be
> shielded from anything more complicated than a lightswitch. Which is
> sometimes quite frustrating, in a different way...

And again, allow me to introduce you to YaST and Webmin.... ;-)

> I think XKCD sums it up nicely:
> 
> http://www.xkcd.com/619/

Full-screen flash video support has been around for a while.

Jim

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Invisible escreveu:
> The problem is, Unix has _always_ been designed around the idea that 
> everything is a text file and that's how you configure the entire 
> system. Sure, these days we have pretty front ends that atempt to hide 
> all the complexity. But as soon as you need to edit something there 
> isn't a front-end for, or the text file contains some setting that the 
> fancy front-end doesn't comprehend... suddenly you need to know how all 
> this stuff works again.
> 
> Windows, on the other hand, has always been designed around the idea 
> that the user doesn't know anything about computers and needs to be 
> shielded from anything more complicated than a lightswitch. Which is 
> sometimes quite frustrating, in a different way...

What that really means is that there are GUIs for all the n00b-level 
options and if there isn't, the Windows n00b will have to mess around 
with the arcane registry or RTFM for the first time in his life.

I like configuration files better than GUIs for no other reason that I 
can simply grep it for whatever I'm looking for or remotely related -- 
direct to the point.  In GUIs I have to go through a multitude of 
recursive menus or tabs hidden well underneath other options etc...

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9

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On 11/23/09 12:15, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> http://www.xkcd.com/619/
>
> Full-screen flash video support has been around for a while.

	Not really on Linux. It eats up the CPU, and doesn't seem to utilize 
many capabilities of the graphics card - which the Windows plugins do.

-- 
"Graphic Artist seeks Boss with vision impairment."

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On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:44:49 -0600, Neeum Zawan wrote:

> On 11/23/09 12:15, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> http://www.xkcd.com/619/
>>
>> Full-screen flash video support has been around for a while.
> 
> 	Not really on Linux. It eats up the CPU, and doesn't seem to 
utilize
> many capabilities of the graphics card - which the Windows plugins do.

I use it quite frequently, and while it does suck CPU, it does run full 
screen, which is what the claim there was....

"Works for me"....

Jim

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>> Windows, on the other hand, has always been designed around the idea 
>> that the user doesn't know anything about computers and needs to be 
>> shielded from anything more complicated than a lightswitch. Which is 
>> sometimes quite frustrating, in a different way...
> 
> What that really means is that there are GUIs for all the n00b-level 
> options and if there isn't, the Windows n00b will have to mess around 
> with the arcane registry or RTFM for the first time in his life.

The things that require you to touch the registry are so arcane that 
your average n00b wouldn't even comprehend what you're talking about. 
Stuff like changing the network MTU, or the order in which IRQs are 
assigned to PnP devices, or other such obscure stuff like that.

Usually the challenge is just figuring out which sub-sub-menu M$ has 
hidden the setting you want under. (Or just which combination of options 
makes the program behave correctly.)

> I like configuration files better than GUIs for no other reason that I 
> can simply grep it for whatever I'm looking for or remotely related -- 
> direct to the point.

I'd be surprised if that actually works.

The option you want to change might be at default, and thus there's no 
entry for it in the config file. It might have a highly non-obvious 
name. Or it might be configured from a totally different file. (E.g., 
there is [presumably] a file somewhere which configures your network 
interfaces. But the DNS configuration is in an entirely unrelated file.)

> In GUIs I have to go through a multitude of 
> recursive menus or tabs hidden well underneath other options etc...

M$ does have an annoying habit of hiding absolutely every configuration 
setting under an "advanced" tab...

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On 11/23/09 21:38, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>> http://www.xkcd.com/619/
>>> Full-screen flash video support has been around for a while.
>> 	Not really on Linux. It eats up the CPU, and doesn't seem to
> utilize
>> many capabilities of the graphics card - which the Windows plugins do.
>
> I use it quite frequently, and while it does suck CPU, it does run full
> screen, which is what the claim there was....
>
> "Works for me"....

	Ah. You have a fast CPU.

	It's like saying "X works", when you don't have 3-D working. A major 
"feature" of the plugin fails to work. From my perspective, that means 
it *doesn't* work.

	Anyway, on many computers, including mine, playing HD videos full 
screen on Flash gets jerky. CPU can't handle it, and the CPU isn't 
supposed to handle it - the video card is.

-- 
"Graphic Artist seeks Boss with vision impairment."

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Neeum Zawan wrote:
>     It's like saying "X works", when you don't have 3-D working. A major 
> "feature" of the plugin fails to work. From my perspective, that means 
> it *doesn't* work.

I have this persistent problem with my co-workers. Everyone was telling me 
"yes, that works" and I'm saying "I'm getting no output" and they mean "it 
compiled without errors."  Sheesh.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   You know the kamikaze monsters in Serious Sam
     with the bombs for hands, that go AAAAAHHHHHHHH!
   I want that for a ring tone.

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Invisible wrote:
> But the DNS configuration is in an entirely unrelated file.)

In particular, in a file that says nothing about DNS in the name or 
contents. And even if you knew it was called the "resolver", they spell the 
name of the configuration file *wrong*, so you can't even find it with 'find'.

> M$ does have an annoying habit of hiding absolutely every configuration 
> setting under an "advanced" tab...

Only the advanced ones you shouldn't screw with without knowing what you're 
doing. :-)

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   You know the kamikaze monsters in Serious Sam
     with the bombs for hands, that go AAAAAHHHHHHHH!
   I want that for a ring tone.

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Neeum Zawan wrote:
> 
>     Not really on Linux. It eats up the CPU, and doesn't seem to utilize
> many capabilities of the graphics card - which the Windows plugins do.
> 

The Linux Flash is still a crappy piece of shit. It's a resource hog and
still it's amazingly stupid (eg. won't handle second soundcard, even
though it supports ALSA).

-Aero

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