I've got three identical laptops here - Dell D610s, all with the same 
hardware configuration (they're part of a set we used to use for classes 
on the road).

openSUSE 11.2 was released yesterday, and I figured I'd try out 11.2 
(since I'm a forum moderator, I should know something about it <g>), and 
my stepson had asked me about Win7 for his gaming needs (since he is 
starting to look at games that need DX10 and runs XP).

So I thought I'd install Win7 on one of the laptops as well.

First I tried openSUSE 11.2's GNOME liveCD.  I'm a GNOME user, so it's 
the most familiar environment for me.  Dropped the disc in, powered up, 
every piece of hardware properly detected - wireless working, sound 
working, didn't have to fuss with anything.

Then I tried the 11.2 KDE liveCD.  I generally haven't liked KDE, but 
KDE4 is relatively new and I wanted to give it a fair shake.  Nice 
environment - I actually kinda liked it.  I had a problem with getting 
the network manager to pull a default route and DNS server setting from 
my DHCP server, but the hardware was (as I expected) detected properly 
and worked just fine.

Next, I installed Windows 7 Ultimate N on the system.  On the plus side - 
the installation was FAST.  Of the three full product installs, it was 
the fastest, actually.  I think it took about the same amount of time as 
Windows 3.1 did if you took out the diskette swapping.

But it failed to detect my wireless card.  I had to actually plug into 
the wired network.  Then it downloaded updates automatically and 
installed a driver for the wireless card.  OK, it did eventually work; 
but with oS 11.2, it just worked - didn't have to download anything.

It also failed to install audio drivers.  Now the Dell D610 hasn't been 
tested with Win7, so perhaps this is to be expected.  What was unexpected 
was finding out that there are actually NO Win7 audio drivers for this 
laptop - you have to install Windows XP drivers in order to get sound 
working.

So with stock hardware in the Dell laptops, I have to say that the idea 
that Windows 7 "just works" and openSUSE 11.2 doesn't is complete pants.

Before I upgrade my real systems to 11.2, I need to check some software 
compatibility and functionality for my Wacom tablet - since I use a 
customized driver (patched with OLED support, which isn't generally 
available) and the X server driver isn't complete yet for Xorg 1.7, I may 
have to wait for that to be completed.

Jim

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> Then I tried the 11.2 KDE liveCD.  I generally haven't liked KDE, but 
> KDE4 is relatively new and I wanted to give it a fair shake.  Nice 
> environment - I actually kinda liked it.

yeah, I'm willing to try it too.  It's certainly the most modern GUI 
environment on Linux right now.  But surely GTK and Gnome will catch up...

> Next, I installed Windows 7 Ultimate N on the system.  On the plus side - 
> the installation was FAST.  Of the three full product installs, it was 
> the fastest, actually.

I have a feeling that lacking such full featured applications such as 
OpenOffice, Gimp, some 4 fully featured text editors, Evolution, a fully 
featured media player like Amarok, and other niceties has something to 
do with it.  But, hey!, one can have loads of fun with notepad and paint 
alone! :D

> So with stock hardware in the Dell laptops, I have to say that the idea 
> that Windows 7 "just works" and openSUSE 11.2 doesn't is complete pants.

This has been a given for many years by now.  Lucky for Microsoft that 
customers already get their new PC's with Vista SP3 fully installed and 
properly configured by OEM's...

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nemesis <nam### [at] nospam-gmailcom> wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
> > Then I tried the 11.2 KDE liveCD.  I generally haven't liked KDE, but 
> > KDE4 is relatively new and I wanted to give it a fair shake.  Nice 
> > environment - I actually kinda liked it.

> yeah, I'm willing to try it too.  It's certainly the most modern GUI 
> environment on Linux right now.  But surely GTK and Gnome will catch up...

  I tried KDE4 (it's quite easy to switch between window managers by
simply logging out, selecting the other window manager in the login screen
and then logging in again), but didn't quite like it compared to KDE3.

  For one, it's not possible to set the taskbar to autohide (I really can't
understand why). For another, it's not possible to configure virtual desktop
switching to the mouse wheel (when used on the background).

  It was some time that I tried it, though. I don't know if they have fixed
those problems.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Jim Henderson schrieb:

> But it failed to detect my wireless card.  I had to actually plug into 
> the wired network.  Then it downloaded updates automatically and 
> installed a driver for the wireless card.  OK, it did eventually work; 
> but with oS 11.2, it just worked - didn't have to download anything.

So you acquired the oS 11.2 live CD as a pressed disc somewhere? Or did 
you perhaps burn it yourself from a /downloaded/ image?

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clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> Jim Henderson schrieb:
>
> > But it failed to detect my wireless card.  I had to actually plug into
> > the wired network.  Then it downloaded updates automatically and
> > installed a driver for the wireless card.  OK, it did eventually work;
> > but with oS 11.2, it just worked - didn't have to download anything.
>
> So you acquired the oS 11.2 live CD as a pressed disc somewhere? Or did
> you perhaps burn it yourself from a /downloaded/ image?

Have to say that was kinda weak and lame. ;)

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Warp wrote:

> nemesis <nam### [at] nospam-gmailcom> wrote:
>> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> > Then I tried the 11.2 KDE liveCD.  I generally haven't liked KDE, but
>> > KDE4 is relatively new and I wanted to give it a fair shake.  Nice
>> > environment - I actually kinda liked it.
> 
>> yeah, I'm willing to try it too.  It's certainly the most modern GUI
>> environment on Linux right now.  But surely GTK and Gnome will catch
>> up...
> 
>   I tried KDE4 (it's quite easy to switch between window managers by
> simply logging out, selecting the other window manager in the login screen
> and then logging in again), but didn't quite like it compared to KDE3.
> 
>   For one, it's not possible to set the taskbar to autohide (I really
>   can't
> understand why). For another, it's not possible to configure virtual
> desktop switching to the mouse wheel (when used on the background).
> 
>   It was some time that I tried it, though. I don't know if they have
>   fixed
> those problems.
 
These were some of my exact worst problems with KDE4 too. At least the 
version that shipped with Fedora 10 really really sucked compared to the 3.x 
(3.5?) KDE that came with FC6 - which I still use at work.

The KDE4 version that came with FC11 is a bit better though, but I think it 
still has to evolve more before being at the usability level of KDE 3.5.
-- 
Stefan Viljoen

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On 11/14/09 11:51, Warp wrote:
>    It was some time that I tried it, though. I don't know if they have fixed
> those problems.

	Did you try a pre 4.2 version?

	4.2 was supposed to be the first stable one (by their own standards).

	I haven't used any of the major DE's for many years now. I do, however, 
use a whole bunch of KDE applications. My terminal emulator has always 
been Konsole. And I must say, Konsole 4.x has a fatal flaw: In some 
applications like mutt, if I set the color to be BrightColor (e.g. 
BrightYellow, etc), not only does Konsole make it bright, it makes it 
bold. Which makes it horrible to look at. The bug report has been 
sitting with them for probably over a year now, with many people 
complaining. Yet no fix. So I continue to use the 3.5 version of Konsole.



-- 
I don't suffer from insanity, i enjoy every waking moment of it.

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On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 14:53:33 -0200, nemesis wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Then I tried the 11.2 KDE liveCD.  I generally haven't liked KDE, but
>> KDE4 is relatively new and I wanted to give it a fair shake.  Nice
>> environment - I actually kinda liked it.
> 
> yeah, I'm willing to try it too.  It's certainly the most modern GUI
> environment on Linux right now.  But surely GTK and Gnome will catch
> up...

Without a doubt - it's a game of leapfrog.  I did play with KDE4 a bit 
yesterday, and ultimately got frustrated with plasma because it doesn't 
seem to work consistently.

>> Next, I installed Windows 7 Ultimate N on the system.  On the plus side
>> - the installation was FAST.  Of the three full product installs, it
>> was the fastest, actually.
> 
> I have a feeling that lacking such full featured applications such as
> OpenOffice, Gimp, some 4 fully featured text editors, Evolution, a fully
> featured media player like Amarok, and other niceties has something to
> do with it.  But, hey!, one can have loads of fun with notepad and paint
> alone! :D

Oh, yeah, I'm sure that's a factor.  2.2 GB worth of DVD for Win7 vs. 4.3 
GB worth of DVD for openSUSE.

>> So with stock hardware in the Dell laptops, I have to say that the idea
>> that Windows 7 "just works" and openSUSE 11.2 doesn't is complete
>> pants.
> 
> This has been a given for many years by now.  Lucky for Microsoft that
> customers already get their new PC's with Vista SP3 fully installed and
> properly configured by OEM's...

Yeah, I know - and yet there are still claims that Windows "Just works" 
and Linux doesn't.

Jim

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On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:51:05 -0500, Warp wrote:

>   For one, it's not possible to set the taskbar to autohide (I really
>   can't
> understand why). 

Yeah, you can do this - you have to unlock the widgets/taskbar and click 
the cashew on the right end of the task bar.  then select "More Settings" 
and select "Auto-hide".

> For another, it's not possible to configure virtual
> desktop switching to the mouse wheel (when used on the background).

Interesting, I never thought about this use of the mouse wheel before.

Jim

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On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 10:58:38 -0600, Neeum Zawan wrote:

> 	Did you try a pre 4.2 version?
> 
> 	4.2 was supposed to be the first stable one (by their own 
standards).

That's a good point, 11.2 ships with version 4.3 on it, so the suggestion 
I made as to how to enable auto-hide may not have been in an earlier 
release.

Jim

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