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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Interesting experience with Win7 and openSUSE 11.2
Date: 15 Nov 2009 14:51:53
Message: <4b005bd9$1@news.povray.org>
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On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:51:05 -0500, Warp wrote:
> For one, it's not possible to set the taskbar to autohide (I really
> can't
> understand why).
Yeah, you can do this - you have to unlock the widgets/taskbar and click
the cashew on the right end of the task bar. then select "More Settings"
and select "Auto-hide".
> For another, it's not possible to configure virtual
> desktop switching to the mouse wheel (when used on the background).
Interesting, I never thought about this use of the mouse wheel before.
Jim
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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Interesting experience with Win7 and openSUSE 11.2
Date: 15 Nov 2009 14:52:40
Message: <4b005c08$1@news.povray.org>
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On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 10:58:38 -0600, Neeum Zawan wrote:
> Did you try a pre 4.2 version?
>
> 4.2 was supposed to be the first stable one (by their own
standards).
That's a good point, 11.2 ships with version 4.3 on it, so the suggestion
I made as to how to enable auto-hide may not have been in an earlier
release.
Jim
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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Interesting experience with Win7 and openSUSE 11.2
Date: 15 Nov 2009 14:54:20
Message: <4b005c6c$1@news.povray.org>
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On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 20:40:01 +0100, clipka wrote:
> Jim Henderson schrieb:
>
>> But it failed to detect my wireless card. I had to actually plug into
>> the wired network. Then it downloaded updates automatically and
>> installed a driver for the wireless card. OK, it did eventually work;
>> but with oS 11.2, it just worked - didn't have to download anything.
>
> So you acquired the oS 11.2 live CD as a pressed disc somewhere? Or did
> you perhaps burn it yourself from a /downloaded/ image?
I "downloaded" it and burned it myself, but it is the official release
version. (My download was a copy across the network from one of the
download servers - handy to work for the company that produces it ;-) )
My point is that the LiveCD and DVD images "just worked".
Jim
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From: Warp
Subject: Re: Interesting experience with Win7 and openSUSE 11.2
Date: 15 Nov 2009 14:58:51
Message: <4b005d7b@news.povray.org>
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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospam com> wrote:
> > For another, it's not possible to configure virtual
> > desktop switching to the mouse wheel (when used on the background).
> Interesting, I never thought about this use of the mouse wheel before.
It's addictive once you get used to it. Guess why I didn't like KDE4.
--
- Warp
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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Interesting experience with Win7 and openSUSE 11.2
Date: 15 Nov 2009 16:01:11
Message: <4b006c17$1@news.povray.org>
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On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:58:51 -0500, Warp wrote:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospam com> wrote:
>> > For another, it's not possible to configure virtual desktop switching
>> > to the mouse wheel (when used on the background).
>
>> Interesting, I never thought about this use of the mouse wheel before.
>
> It's addictive once you get used to it. Guess why I didn't like KDE4.
Because it's unfamiliar? I have to say that the couple of days I've
spent playing with it, I've found it looks good, but some of the
functionality seems to work inconsistently - though part of that could be
unfamiliarity on my part because I'm a GNOME user myself.
Jim
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From: clipka
Subject: Re: Interesting experience with Win7 and openSUSE 11.2
Date: 15 Nov 2009 17:19:44
Message: <4b007e80@news.povray.org>
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Jim Henderson schrieb:
> Yeah, I know - and yet there are still claims that Windows "Just works"
> and Linux doesn't.
I can give (and actually did give, as you may recall :-)) an example of
where Linux does /not/ "just work":
When I got my AMD Phenom machine, I installed Debian "Etch" 4.0r5 on it
out-of-the-box. Everything /seemed/ to be fine, until I discovered that
something was wrong with the system time: The clock ran double speed!
Now you would think that this is a pretty basic and non-complex
functionality. Still Linux managed to get it wrong.
And it's not like fixing such things would be easy with Linux - at least
that's how it appears to me: By now it "just works" in many cases, but
when it doesn't and you don't happen to have administrative skills for
Linux, you're perfectly screwed. With Windows, OTOH, at least for such
basic stuff you're pretty likely to find something helpful on the
mainboard manufacturer's website.
I think the observation of most Linux users that Linux "just works" is
clouded by them typically having at least some basic experience in
administering Unix machines.
To add another thought, the idea that /any/ existing operating system
"just works" is pretty much a myth at present. I have /never ever/ seen
anyone just learning how to use a computer who didn't at one time or the
other have to get more experienced people fix things that got broken
/somehow/ (or never worked in the first place).
Well, maybe Mac comes close, at least that's the impression I got from
my first and only contact with a Mac and a user thereof.
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From: clipka
Subject: Re: Interesting experience with Win7 and openSUSE 11.2
Date: 15 Nov 2009 17:27:54
Message: <4b00806a$1@news.povray.org>
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Jim Henderson schrieb:
>> So you acquired the oS 11.2 live CD as a pressed disc somewhere? Or did
>> you perhaps burn it yourself from a /downloaded/ image?
>
> I "downloaded" it and burned it myself, but it is the official release
> version. (My download was a copy across the network from one of the
> download servers - handy to work for the company that produces it ;-) )
>
> My point is that the LiveCD and DVD images "just worked".
I gather that it is a brand new release, too. Will it "just work" with
hardware to come in a few months' time as well? Or could that possibly
necessitate downloading a driver update for one or two components, too?
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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Interesting experience with Win7 and openSUSE 11.2
Date: 15 Nov 2009 18:04:24
Message: <4b0088f8$1@news.povray.org>
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On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:19:07 +0100, clipka wrote:
> I can give (and actually did give, as you may recall ) an example of
> where Linux does /not/ "just work":
Oh, sure, I never said that one couldn't come up with a configuration
that didn't "just work" - and I would never make that claim. But there
*are* people who make that claim about Windows, and that's a completely
false claim.
It isn't about having administration experience, either - I was talking
purely about the installation, which doesn't require any admin experience
for either OS platform. I was merely talking about hardware a detection
comparison on identical hardware and the challenges I had in getting Win7
to work on hardware that openSUSE 11.2 installed, configured, and found
all hardware properly for.
I agree, though, that ultimately the idea that any OS "just works" out of
the box is a myth as long as the software vendor has no control over all
the hardware (which MacOS may have as an advantage - not all hardware,
but certainly the hardware categories that Windows and Linux have issues
with.
Jim
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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Interesting experience with Win7 and openSUSE 11.2
Date: 15 Nov 2009 18:05:34
Message: <4b00893e$1@news.povray.org>
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On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:27:18 +0100, clipka wrote:
> Jim Henderson schrieb:
>
>>> So you acquired the oS 11.2 live CD as a pressed disc somewhere? Or
>>> did you perhaps burn it yourself from a /downloaded/ image?
>>
>> I "downloaded" it and burned it myself, but it is the official release
>> version. (My download was a copy across the network from one of the
>> download servers - handy to work for the company that produces it ;-) )
>>
>> My point is that the LiveCD and DVD images "just worked".
>
> I gather that it is a brand new release, too.
Yes, it was released on Thursday.
> Will it "just work" with
> hardware to come in a few months' time as well? Or could that possibly
> necessitate downloading a driver update for one or two components, too?
Shall I answer this question with a "well, duh", or an "it depends on
what new hardware is released and what compatibility there is with
existing drivers"? (The latter, of course, is a more wordy way of saying
the first answer).
Jim
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From: Neeum Zawan
Subject: Re: Interesting experience with Win7 and openSUSE 11.2
Date: 15 Nov 2009 18:28:40
Message: <4b008ea8$1@news.povray.org>
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On 11/15/09 16:19, clipka wrote:
> I think the observation of most Linux users that Linux "just works" is
> clouded by them typically having at least some basic experience in
> administering Unix machines.
Same goes for Windows, which I guess you alluded to in the next
paragraph. How far will a Windows user get if he does not know about the
Control Panel?
--
Why is the person who invests all your money called a broker?
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