Okay, so I decided it was time to upgrade my Linux machine from Debian 
"Etch" (4.0.5) to "Lenny" (5.0.3)...


Gripe #1: How to download the packages?

I don't have the Linux machine configured to connect to the internet 
(and don't intend to), so I'd have to download ISO DVD images using my 
Windows machine. Debian strongly suggests using jigdo (there is no 
serious alternative to download images, unless one would be happy to use 
BitTorrent, which I don't intend to install either).

Unfortunately, the pre-compiled jigdo for Windows won't run on XP x64; 
the MSYS environment it is based on just refuses to cooperate, all I get 
is an error message from sh.exe.

I guess I tried everything by now: Changing the compatibility settings 
for the MSYS tools; tweaking various MSYS tweakables; praying, shouting, 
swearing and cursing; re-compiling the whole MSYS environment (on my 
Linux machine, using the MinGW cross-compiler, which of course I had to 
install first...)

In the end I gave up, and powered up the old 32-bit Windows XP machine 
once more, which had proven to run jigdo just fine back when I 
downloaded the "Etch" images.

(Next problem was to burn the ISO images to DVDs; the 32-bit box only 
had a CD writer - but the only DVD writing software I owned turned out 
to not run on XP x64 either. Tough luck. Well, a freeware DVD writer 
software was quickly found on the 'net and installed, and served the 
purpose fine, so not a big deal there.)


It seems that updating was easier than some official Debian How-To 
claimed: Instead of hassling with gazillions of steps on an SSH text 
terminal ("do /not/ try this via an X-Window connection!"), all I did 
was click some menu entries and buttons in the Synaptic Package Manager 
running under Gnome, and make a few decisions whether to have some 
configuration files overwritten by new versions or keep the old ones. 
And reboot once, because I couldn't bother trying to figure out the 
correct commands to restart a few services (most notably gdm) manually.

I said it /seems/ that updating was easier than claimed, because... um, 
well... honestly I don't /know/ whether I really updated my system. It 
uses a new kernel now, and all the packages have been updated from the 
"Etch" versions to the "Lenny" ones. And - hey, guess what - I do have 
an official Debian distribution of boost 1.35 now! Maybe there's hope to 
even get 1.36 some day... :-P

If that constitutes an updated system, then yes, I apparently did update 
it...


Everything seems to be fine - except...

Gripe #2: WTF?!

After updating, two essential network services appeared broken: Samba 
(which I used to transfer files between the Linux and the Windows 
machine), and X-Window access (which I used to actually interact with 
the Linux machine... who needs a display or a keyboard on a Linux box?!).

Other network services still worked fine though (SSH, but also HTTP, for 
instance), and as a matter of fact the Samba issue was easily solved by 
restarting the service (well, the whole machine in this case, but I 
guess having restarted only the service would have done the job just as 
well :-)).

The problems with X-Window persisted though. I browsed through all the 
configuration files I could think of, over and over again, without 
finding any hint. I googled the 'net up and down. Symptoms remained, 
invariably: Xming (which I use on the Windows side) would briefly show 
the typical X-window background, then close. Even without the 
"-terminate" option. And no log file would tell me why. Starting Xming 
in non-XDMCP mode would work fine, but what I really wanted was XDMCP.

No way; the only hint I found was a bug report from an Ubuntu user. With 
a link into nowhere.

So what did I do?

Well, here I am, sitting at an X-Window terminal connection to a 
Gnome/XDM hybrid, relieved that I managed to get *some* XDMCP connection 
running (without any additional hassle as it seems), but being convinced 
that the font used by XDM is a tad too small, or would need ClearType, 
or whatever...

Linux sucks.

Sometimes.

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clipka wrote:
> Well, a freeware DVD writer 

imgburn is best. :-) There are a couple of proprietary formats it doesn't 
handle, but nothing used by free software.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

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Darren New schrieb:
> clipka wrote:
>> Well, a freeware DVD writer 
> 
> imgburn is best. :-) There are a couple of proprietary formats it 
> doesn't handle, but nothing used by free software.

CDBurnerXP went my way, and by doing the job without hassle it has 
earned itself the right to stay for a while ;-)

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clipka wrote:
> Okay, so I decided it was time to upgrade my Linux machine from Debian 
> "Etch" (4.0.5) to "Lenny" (5.0.3)...
> 
> Gripe #1: How to download the packages?
> 
> I don't have the Linux machine configured to connect to the internet 
> (and don't intend to), so I'd have to download ISO DVD images using my 
> Windows machine. Debian strongly suggests using jigdo (there is no 
> serious alternative to download images, unless one would be happy to use 
> BitTorrent, which I don't intend to install either).

You're kind of paranoid, huh? ;)  You never really used bittorrent?

BTW, I don't see the logic behind an offline Linux in favor of an online 
Windows if security is of concern... :)

> It seems that updating was easier than some official Debian How-To 
> claimed: Instead of hassling with gazillions of steps on an SSH text 
> terminal ("do /not/ try this via an X-Window connection!"), all I did 
> was click some menu entries and buttons in the Synaptic Package Manager 
> running under Gnome, and make a few decisions whether to have some 
> configuration files overwritten by new versions or keep the old ones. 
> And reboot once, because I couldn't bother trying to figure out the 
> correct commands to restart a few services (most notably gdm) manually.

Yeah, Synaptic is such a joy.

> Gripe #2: WTF?!
> ...
> So what did I do?
> ...
> Linux sucks.

there you go!  Linux don't like you either. ;)

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nemesis schrieb:

> You're kind of paranoid, huh? ;)  You never really used bittorrent?

No Sir; up until this day and hour, I have managed to stay /far/ away 
from it. So far that I have not much of an idea what it /really/ 
actually is.

> BTW, I don't see the logic behind an offline Linux in favor of an online 
> Windows if security is of concern... :)

Because I haven't got the slightest clue about administering Linux, so I 
decided to not bother about regular updates, firewalls and what-have-you 
on that box. All I wanted it for was running POV-Ray on a dedicated 
machine, without having to pay for another Windows license, and with a 
comfortable scripting environment.

Linux may have more /potential/ when it comes to achieving a 
comparatively secure environment, but I really don't believe in systems 
delivering lifetime security out of the box.

For instance, I guess my Linux system would be a big gaping security 
hole if I connected it to the internet directly. I haven't knowingly 
installed any firewall, but I did install Samba, activated XDMCP, and 
set up a lighttpd-based HTTP server which may soon host a few CGI 
scripts - all set up for ease of use in my own local network instead of 
worrying about security. Because when usability issues arise, I'm not 
proficient enough with the operating system to work around them /and/ 
avoid compromising security.

Windows, however, is the operating system I have been running for about 
a decade by now, and working with it both in my profession and in 
private life, and I imagine I have enough administrative experience to 
have at least /some/ idea of the security implications of what I'm 
doing. And besides, it's the machine that runs the OS and software I'm 
familiar with and need for my daily work and/or hobby, which regularly 
includes internet research, so that machine /must/ be hooked up to the 
internet, while the Linux box doesn't need to.


>> Linux sucks.
> 
> there you go!  Linux don't like you either. ;)

Apparently, yes :-)

Then again, I imagine I quite like Linux and Linux quite likes me - and 
that it just gets its fits now and then because I don't spend enough 
time with it... just like I get my occasional fits for exactly the same 
reason :-)

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>> You're kind of paranoid, huh? ;)  You never really used bittorrent?
> 
> No Sir; up until this day and hour, I have managed to stay /far/ away 
> from it. So far that I have not much of an idea what it /really/ 
> actually is.

It's a way of obtaining files. Has the advantage that it's inherantly 
resumable, and hypothetically allows the best possible download rates by 
adaptively selecting where to download from. Has the notable 
disadvantage that it requires open ports exposed to the Internet in 
order to work properly, which can be problematic to configure.

>> BTW, I don't see the logic behind an offline Linux in favor of an 
>> online Windows if security is of concern... :)
> 
> Because I haven't got the slightest clue about administering Linux.

That's a pretty logical reason, actually...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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clipka wrote:
> nemesis schrieb:
> 
>> You're kind of paranoid, huh? ;)  You never really used bittorrent?
> 
> No Sir; up until this day and hour, I have managed to stay /far/ away 
> from it. So far that I have not much of an idea what it /really/ 
> actually is.

It's a sophisticated form of FTP, basically. There's nothing inherently 
dangerous about it.

> Because I haven't got the slightest clue about administering Linux, so I 
> decided to not bother about regular updates, firewalls and what-have-you 
> on that box.

Really, OpenSuSE is about as easy to admin as Windows is, for simple stuff, 
if you wanted to. (Altho 11 kind of made the UI for a lot of things a lot 
more confusing than it was for 10. Not that such isn't true of Windows 
either. :-)

> all set up for ease of use in my own local network instead of 
> worrying about security. 

FWIW, the admin tool that comes with SuSE (YaST) makes saying "firewall 
everything incoming from outside the local net" very easy.

Of all the versions of Linux I've used, OpenSuSE has been most friendly in 
terms of admin.  (Even better than Ubuntu in my experience.)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

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On 10/30/09 16:25, clipka wrote:
>> You're kind of paranoid, huh? ;) You never really used bittorrent?
>
> No Sir; up until this day and hour, I have managed to stay /far/ away
> from it. So far that I have not much of an idea what it /really/
> actually is.

	When it comes to downloading large files or ISO's, you're shooting 
yourself in the foot. Bittorrent is the way to go.

>> BTW, I don't see the logic behind an offline Linux in favor of an
>> online Windows if security is of concern... :)
>
> Because I haven't got the slightest clue about administering Linux, so I

	And you're using Debian, of all distros?

	<dodges tomato>

> For instance, I guess my Linux system would be a big gaping security
> hole if I connected it to the internet directly. I haven't knowingly
> installed any firewall, but I did install Samba, activated XDMCP, and

	Maybe it's a bad idea, but I just use the firewall in my router.


-- 
Ghosts are merely unsubstantiated roomers.

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> Of all the versions of Linux I've used, OpenSuSE has been most friendly 
> in terms of admin.  (Even better than Ubuntu in my experience.)

I read somewhere that "ubuntu" is an ancient African word meaning "I 
can't get Debian to work"...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 schrieb:

> I read somewhere that "ubuntu" is an ancient African word meaning "I 
> can't get Debian to work"...

LOL!

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