>> No, but there's probably some general law that allows the authorities to
>> take away the children if their parents are not considered to be capable 
>> of
>> bringing up the child in a suitable manner.  Or some grey wooly wording 
>> like
>> that :-)
>
>  Which then means that what is and isn't illegal depends on what happens
> to be politically correct that month.

Exactly.  There are lots of laws like that, for example in the UK there is 
"careless and inconsiderate driving" and "dangerous driving".  Obviously 
they are open to massive interpretation, some people get a fine for eating 
an apple in their car, whilst others can go 20 mph over the speed limit in 
bad conditions and not be stopped.  Life's unfair like that.

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> But seriously, from this distance it's impossible to tell whether the 
> authorities did they because they don't like the beliefs of the family, 
> or because the family has actually been doing something more serious.

Well, the article claimed there were no reports of abuse or anything. It's 
probably because the authorities thought the parents were doing bad by their 
kids by teaching them that extreme racism is a good and acceptable thing.

I disagree that the kids should be taken away for that, tho.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
>   Is there a codified law in the United States which states that if
> parents have the "wrong" political opinion, decorate their home with
> the "wrong" symbols and name their children with the "wrong" names,
> it's ok to take the children away?

You can take them away for being "abusive" or "negligent."  But like all 
squishy laws, this one looks like it's being abused.

You can also arrest someone for "disorderly conduct" or "being a public 
nuisance." Those types of laws also get abused.

>   In a free, constitutional country you cannot be punished because of
> having the wrong political opinions or decorating your home with the
> wrong symbols. That's the whole point in freedom. When you start having
> Orwellian thought crimes (either de jure or, as seems to be in this case,
> de facto), you are eroding the very foundation of constitutional freedom
> of opinion.

Agreed.

>   If someone has nazi opinions and nazi symbols all over their home, does
> the polic go and take his children away? It seems that yes. 

It could be just one over-enthusiastic asshole working in an 
otherwise-valuable job. Just like one cop beating the crap out of someone 
innocent doesn't mean cops should never use force to arrest a suspected 
criminal.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
>   Which then means that what is and isn't illegal depends on what happens
> to be politically correct that month.

More like what one particular state employee feels like doing that day. It's 
entirely possible the person who took them away is getting disapproval from 
his/her coworkers, too.

Remember that you'd likely never have heard of this 30 years ago, and that 
if the situation winds up with the accuser getting reprimanded and the kids 
being returned, you'll likely not hear of that either.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:55:03 +0000, Invisible wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>> There's rather well-known Delilah in the Bible......
> 
> Sure. But she's not a real person. ;-)

That's debatable.....mythologies tend to have a basis in reality.

>> So I could make a converse claim - that nobody in history has ever been
>> named Gemma. ;-)
> 
> Heh, well, maybe it's only popular in the UK.

I know nobody in the UK with the name either, I think the one I've e-
mailed is in one of the northern European countries, maybe the 
Netherlands, but probably more likely in Germany now I think about it.

> On the other hand, most people have names like "Sarah" which
> (apparently) means "princess". Naming your daughter Delilah is... hell,
> why not go the whole hog and name her "Satan" or something? :-P

I'm sure you'd find some people who are named Satan out there. :-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:
> Warp wrote:
>>   Which then means that what is and isn't illegal depends on what happens
>> to be politically correct that month.
> 
> More like what one particular state employee feels like doing that day.
> It's entirely possible the person who took them away is getting
> disapproval from his/her coworkers, too.
> 
> Remember that you'd likely never have heard of this 30 years ago, and
> that if the situation winds up with the accuser getting reprimanded and
> the kids being returned, you'll likely not hear of that either.
> 

Most cases of a child being removed from households never make the news.
And, sadly, it is very hard to get children away from abusive parents
for anything other than a short amount of time.

In some states* the child welfare folks will remove children from a home
upon the allegation that something untoward is going on. They, and the
police, then have a very short amount of time to show a judge that
something harmful to the child is taking place, or the kid gets returned
to their parents. The alternative to this is to allow a child to stay in
an abusive environment where the parents know they are being
investigated. At some point, it was codified into law that the first was
preferable to the latter.

It results in some humorous and some sad cases. I know of one case where
a girl called the police, saying her mother had kidnapped the girl's
daughter. Police show up, and take the baby away. Turns out the
grandmother was babysitting and told the daughter something she didn't
want to hear. In the same county, a baby died because, after being
taking from the parents for 48 hours several times on reports of child
endangerment or abuse, welfare workers could not make a solid case that
they would harm the baby and they did. If I remember the newspaper
correct, they were convicted years after the baby's death.

*Would say most, but I only know about a few.

Post a reply to this message

On 10/30/09 21:43, Sabrina Kilian wrote:
> Most cases of a child being removed from households never make the news.
> And, sadly, it is very hard to get children away from abusive parents
> for anything other than a short amount of time.

	And sadly, CPS also takes away children who shouldn't be taken away.

	Just thought I'd throw it in since we're speaking in generalities.


-- 
Ghosts are merely unsubstantiated roomers.

Post a reply to this message

On 10/30/09 06:43, Warp wrote:
>    Is there a codified law in the United States which states that if
> parents have the "wrong" political opinion, decorate their home with
> the "wrong" symbols and name their children with the "wrong" names,
> it's ok to take the children away?

	For all I know, you're engaging in strawman arguments (perhaps 
unintentionally).


-- 
Ghosts are merely unsubstantiated roomers.

Post a reply to this message

On 10/30/09 06:04, Warp wrote:
> Fredrik Eriksson<fe79}--at--{yahoo}--dot--{com>  wrote:
>>
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/01/13/2009-01-13_report_child_named_adolf_hitler_removed_.html
>
>    Three children are forcefully removed from their parents because one of
> the children was named in a certain way? Where are the human rights
> commissions?

	Talk about jumping to conclusions after reading a random news article!

-- 
Ghosts are merely unsubstantiated roomers.

Post a reply to this message

On 10/30/09 12:10, Darren New wrote:
>> But seriously, from this distance it's impossible to tell whether the
>> authorities did they because they don't like the beliefs of the
>> family, or because the family has actually been doing something more
>> serious.
>
> Well, the article claimed there were no reports of abuse or anything.

	How often is that the case when CPS is involved? That there were no 
reports of abuse really does not tell us much about why they were taken 
away.


-- 
Ghosts are merely unsubstantiated roomers.

Post a reply to this message