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scott wrote:
>> All we need now is for Warp to pop up and tell me that if only I used
>> a *real* programming environment like VisualStudio C++, I would only
>> need to click on a button and everything would instantly work right...
>
> Or Scott to pop up and tell you to just use a .net language and be done
> with COM altogether.
So I have a choice between a nice programming language with limited
ability to access the outside world, or a language that can access the
outside world but can't actually do much with it. Great...
Actually, I already had this choice. Anything .NET can do, C++ can do.
Just don't expect it to help you in any way if you make a mistake.
Actually, come to think of it, there's always hand-written assembly...
> What do you think of this?
>
> http://www.ffconsultancy.com/dotnet/fsharp/rule30/code/1/rule30.fs
I don't really understand all the graphics-related stuff that's
happening, but the definition of rule 30 itself seems relatively
straight-forward.
(I did briefly look at F# a while back, but abandoned it because it's
not really functional.)
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>> http://www.ffconsultancy.com/dotnet/fsharp/rule30/code/1/rule30.fs
>
> I don't really understand all the graphics-related stuff that's happening,
> but the definition of rule 30 itself seems relatively straight-forward.
I just thought it seemed like a language where creating forms, graphics and
pixels was quite easy, without much need for boilerplate code. And...
> (I did briefly look at F# a while back, but abandoned it because it's not
> really functional.)
...Wikipedia claims it is functional (so I thought you'd like it), but I'll
believe you because I know almost nothing about this subject!
The other demos on their page are quite interesting to look at:
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/dotnet/fsharp/
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>> I don't really understand all the graphics-related stuff that's
>> happening, but the definition of rule 30 itself seems relatively
>> straight-forward.
>
> I just thought it seemed like a language where creating forms, graphics
> and pixels was quite easy, without much need for boilerplate code.
Yeah, I'd need to sit down and learn the language syntax and how allthe
UI stuff actually works. (Every UI system seemingly has its own entirely
different event model and so forth...)
>> (I did briefly look at F# a while back, but abandoned it because it's
>> not really functional.)
>
> ...Wikipedia claims it is functional
People claim that Erlang is functional too. ;-) Hell, some people say
Lisp is functional...
> But I'll believe you because I know almost nothing about this subject!
Heh. ;-)
In fairness, if F# was *actually* functional, it wouldn't run very well
on the .NET runtime, nor interface with the .NET libraries. Both of
these things are object-oriented, not functional. So there are some
unavoidable design compromises to be made. If you accept that you're
designing a language to fit in with a large monolithic OO system,
there's a limit to how functional you can easily make it. So it's not
like they just don't know how to design a functional language...
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>>> Good Luck!
>>
>> Why thank you. I believe I'll be needing it... :-/
>
> Indeed! You will need it.
Heh. It's frustrating, really... I discovered that Windows XP and higher
has a thing called Windows Imaging Component (WIC), which allows you to
load and save PNG or JPEG images. This is what I'd like to do. However...
...in order to use it, you need to include the header file wincodec.h
(which I don't have), and you need to link in windowscodec.lib (which I
also don't have). It seems almost pointless to continue reading about
the API, because I can't actually call it anyway.
Hypothetically, if I could somehow discover the necessary GUIDs used by
WIC and the function indicies, I could get away with not having the
necessary header files. But without the include file, I don't think it's
possible to actually call anything. (The include file presumably
contains all the marshalling code to send the function arguments to the
function, which could theoretically be running on another PC. I can't
write this code manually.)
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On 10/14/2009 9:39 AM, Invisible wrote:
> ...in order to use it, you need to include the header file wincodec.h
> (which I don't have), and you need to link in windowscodec.lib (which I
> also don't have). It seems almost pointless to continue reading about
> the API, because I can't actually call it anyway.
You probably will need to download the latest PlatformSDK from
Microsoft. That will contain all of the windows components you need,
even stuff to interface with Vista and Windows 7!
--
~Mike
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scott wrote:
>> All we need now is for Warp to pop up and tell me that if only I used
>> a *real* programming environment like VisualStudio C++, I would only
>> need to click on a button and everything would instantly work right...
>
> Or Scott to pop up and tell you to just use a .net language and be done
> with COM altogether.
Or both! Use a .NET language and tell it to interface itself to COM. ;-)
> http://www.ffconsultancy.com/dotnet/fsharp/rule30/code/1/rule30.fs
Sweet. I haven't taken the time to figure out how they unify the functional
with all the stateful OO libraries.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".
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Invisible wrote:
> these things are object-oriented, not functional.
The "machine code" itself does pretty OK for functional. It's just all the
libraries (including most that you can't program without) are stateful.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".
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>>> All we need now is for Warp to pop up and tell me that if only I used
>>> a *real* programming environment like VisualStudio C++, I would only
>>> need to click on a button and everything would instantly work right...
>>
>> Or Scott to pop up and tell you to just use a .net language and be
>> done with COM altogether.
>
> Or both! Use a .NET language and tell it to interface itself to COM. ;-)
What a wonderful idea! Instead of having a compiled Haskell program that
requires you to install 10MB of GTK+ libraries before it will run, you
can have an interpretted .NET program which requires you to install
400MB of libraries before it will run. Everybody wins...
>> http://www.ffconsultancy.com/dotnet/fsharp/rule30/code/1/rule30.fs
>
> Sweet. I haven't taken the time to figure out how they unify the
> functional with all the stateful OO libraries.
The real world is stateful. Almost all functional languages must have a
strategy for dealing with real-world state. Just apply the same
technique (whatever it is) to dealing with stateful APIs.
The tricky part is usually the type system...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> can have an interpretted .NET program
.NET isn't interpreted.
>> Sweet. I haven't taken the time to figure out how they unify the
>> functional with all the stateful OO libraries.
>
> The real world is stateful. Almost all functional languages must have a
> strategy for dealing with real-world state. Just apply the same
> technique (whatever it is) to dealing with stateful APIs.
Well, yes, except I suspect that's not how F# does it. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".
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>> ...in order to use it, you need to include the header file wincodec.h
>> (which I don't have), and you need to link in windowscodec.lib (which I
>> also don't have). It seems almost pointless to continue reading about
>> the API, because I can't actually call it anyway.
>
> You probably will need to download the latest PlatformSDK from
> Microsoft. That will contain all of the windows components you need,
> even stuff to interface with Vista and Windows 7!
What's the PlatformSDK?
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