Neeum Zawan wrote:
> -- 
 > Would the capacity of a Palaeozoic Hard Dive be measured in Trilobites?

This is the win, people!

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"Neeum Zawan" <m.n### [at] ieeeorg> wrote in message 
news:4abcdaf7$1@news.povray.org...

> The summary if you don't want to read it all is that parents should avoid 
> praising intelligence, and should focus more on praising effort.

I see the value in that. My mother taught me, before I entered school, that 
I was smarter than all the other children. When I started school and 
complained that no one wanted to be friends with me, she taught me that all 
the other kids were jealous of how smart I was. When I started getting beat 
up, she told me that that was the price I had to pay for being so smart.

Fortunately, I *was* smart enough to realize how useless her advice was, and 
I learned to keep my smart [sic] comments to myself. :)

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Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay wrote:

> 
> Any advice?  Tips? 
> 

Not a parent, just a guy who's old enough to have seen a lot of kids 
around me grow up and who knows a few professional artists.

I have come to believe that a parent's role is to ensure his child has 
the maximum number of choices available to her when she becomes an 
adult. Most of the teenagers I know aren't going to have many choices in 
adulthood because they have been given too many as children. They are 
crippled by distraction and laziness. Those who seem to be surviving the 
MySpace/PlayStation/CellPhone/XBox/Facebook epidemic are those who are 
engaged in disciplined, competitive activities. Art without discipline 
is poisonous. So what if it fosters creativity? Text messaging fosters 
creativity -- "sexting" especially I would think.

I believe absolutely that a human being is designed to hunt for his 
supper and, if not given the opportunity to do so, will almost always 
become insane and depressed. I wouldn't let my daughter just /have/ 
drawing anymore than I would let her just /have/ money. I would subject 
her to an appropriate amount of honest criticism of her work. Laziness, 
even intellectual or creative laziness, is more debilitating than 
smoking. How would you react if you caught her smoking? Afraid she'll 
quit drawing if you don't "support" her failures? Why is no one afraid 
his daughter will quit academics if he doesn't support her failures in 
that area?

On the practical end, I would suggest buying her many technical books on 
drawing. I don't draw, but I imagine it's much like POV-Ray in that the 
mastering of technical skills increases the development speed of 
artistic skills. We've all spent weeks laying a (too solid) foundation 
for a creative idea that didn't pan out. Had we properly parameterized 
that foundation, we could have tried several artistic ideas in the same 
amount of time. Of course, one can go too far in that direction as well.

  -Shay

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"Shay" <n@n.n> wrote in message news:4abcf6f1$1@news.povray.org...
> Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay wrote:
>
>>
>> Any advice?  Tips?
>
> Not a parent, just a guy who's old enough to have seen a lot of kids 
> around me grow up and who knows a few professional artists.
>
> I have come to believe that a parent's role is to ensure his child has the 
> maximum number of choices available to her when she becomes an adult. Most 
> of the teenagers I know aren't going to have many choices in adulthood 
> because they have been given too many as children. They are crippled by 
> distraction and laziness. Those who seem to be surviving the 
> MySpace/PlayStation/CellPhone/XBox/Facebook epidemic are those who are 
> engaged in disciplined, competitive activities. Art without discipline is 
> poisonous. So what if it fosters creativity? Text messaging fosters 
> creativity -- "sexting" especially I would think.

Yes.  Discipline is needed to be successful at _anything_ in life. 
Unfortunately, I lack a lot of it myself, and I'm often concerned that I 
haven't properly taught it to my daughter.  (not to be confused with 
punishment, even though the terms are often used as if they are 
interchangeable.)

> I believe absolutely that a human being is designed to hunt for his supper 
> and, if not given the opportunity to do so, will almost always become 
> insane and depressed. I wouldn't let my daughter just /have/ drawing 
> anymore than I would let her just /have/ money. I would subject her to an 
> appropriate amount of honest criticism of her work. Laziness, even 
> intellectual or creative laziness, is more debilitating than smoking. How 
> would you react if you caught her smoking? Afraid she'll quit drawing if 
> you don't "support" her failures? Why is no one afraid his daughter will 
> quit academics if he doesn't support her failures in that area?

That is where things get fuzzy, though.  On the one hand, you want to guide 
your child.  On the other, you don't want to be so heavy handed as to cause 
them to hate what they are doing.  Hard work, in any field, can be very 
enjoyable.  Unfortunately, most of us don't really believe that.
>
> On the practical end, I would suggest buying her many technical books on 
> drawing. I don't draw, but I imagine it's much like POV-Ray in that the 
> mastering of technical skills increases the development speed of artistic 
> skills. We've all spent weeks laying a (too solid) foundation for a 
> creative idea that didn't pan out. Had we properly parameterized that 
> foundation, we could have tried several artistic ideas in the same amount 
> of time. Of course, one can go too far in that direction as well.
>
I have never been taught to draw.  Ever.  I used to think that the best way 
to learn anything was to teach yourself by simply doing it.  For most 
things, I wouldn't even bother cracking open a book.  Well, that may have 
some merit, but I no longer believe it.  The truth was that I just didn't 
like someone telling me what to do and telling me what I was doing wrong.  I 
know my daughter is the same way, so it's a tricky balance.  The best way to 
get any person to agree with (or to) something is to let them think it was 
_their_ idea.  In that regard, I show her things that "I just happen to come 
across" on the Internet, then see what she wants to do with it.  "Oh, you 
want that technical book on drawing?  I don't know...  Let me think about 
it..."  ;-)

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Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay wrote:
> "Shay" <n@n.n> wrote in message news:4abcf6f1$1@news.povray.org...
> 
>>Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay wrote:
>>

> Yes.  Discipline is needed to be successful at _anything_ in life. 
> Unfortunately, I lack a lot of it myself, and I'm often concerned that I 
> haven't properly taught it to my daughter.  (not to be confused with 
> punishment, even though the terms are often used as if they are 
> interchangeable.)
> 
> 

I think there is instances where discipline can come later and/or from 
outside.  Give direction on life issues sure, but not aesthetics.

I spent hours with my daughter tossing her pitches to bat into a screen. 
  I gave her technical coaching on batting not at all. We had great 
times.  She had a huge appetite for practice. Later her high school 
coach, who actually knows something about it, took that raw material and 
turned her into one of the leading batters in the city.  Meanwhile I 
watched as the children of other parents smothered trying to please 
half-baked demands to 'straighten your hips' or 'bend your knees more' 
or whatever.

I remember as a child my dad taking me to a museum and, God bless him, 
trying to relate, pointing out to me that the thick impasto on one 
painting was gotten with a stubby thick brush.  Of course just the 
opposite is true and I loved him for trying but I knew I was on my own 
course and I needed to seek out others like me.  I recognized how hard 
it was for him when I chose art class over boy scouts.

The precious thing about an eleven year old making drawings is that they 
are actually creating little worlds for themselves.  Not works of 
aesthetics.

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Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay wrote:
> 10 years ago, I would have looked down my nose at pretty much all 
> manga/anime.  Then my daughter decided "Spirited Away" looked like a neat 
> movie to watch, and I'd read about it on Slashdot, so I bought it.  We have 
> different tastes (we should!), but both of us have developed an interest. 
> Plus, we're both Japanophiles now.  ;-) 

Check out anything by Shinkai Makoto.

--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.freesitespace.net

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