OK I know that not all Americans feel that way but it seems that the majority of
vocal ones do.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Stephen <mcavoysAT@aoldotcom> wrote:
> OK I know that not all Americans feel that way but it seems that the majority of
> vocal ones do.

  I think it's because most of them still have this misconception that
national health care = communism (a view promoted by many prominent figures,
among others, Ronald Reagan).

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:28:41 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> OK I know that not all Americans feel that way but it seems that the
> majority of vocal ones do.

I've been having a discussion about this with a friend of mine today 
who's on "the other side" of the debate (against the Obama plan).  It 
seems the bulk of his opposition is because most of the people voting for 
it haven't read it.  He hasn't either.

It seems to me (being in favor of it, and no, I haven't read it either) 
that there are those who think that it should reformed as it is - nearly 
everybody agrees that what we have is broken, it's just a question of how 
best to fix it.

Those in favour of continuing private insurance, in my view, overlook 
that public health is, by definition, a public concern.  If we don't take 
care of individuals who get sick because they don't have insurance, we 
risk infecting everyone else.

Then there are those who think capitalism is the answer to *everything*.  
"Let the market decide" - the problem (as I see it) with this is that 
some things *shouldn't* be driven by the market (ie, money).  Health is 
one of those.  Public Safety is another (and public health is a component 
of public safety IMHO).  I don't think the prisons should be privatized 
either, because the profit motive is too strong, and that profit motive 
drives the wrong societal behaviour.

Jim

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Jim Henderson schrieb:
> Then there are those who think capitalism is the answer to *everything*.  
> "Let the market decide"

We're currently seeing where this leads to... but I'm sure there are 
people who even think capitalism is the answer to the economic crisis... >_<

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On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:45:54 -0400, Warp wrote:

> most of them

No, just the vocal ones who oppose it.  And maybe not communism, but 
socialism.

Jim

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On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:55:58 +0200, clipka wrote:

> Jim Henderson schrieb:
>> Then there are those who think capitalism is the answer to
>> *everything*. "Let the market decide"
> 
> We're currently seeing where this leads to... but I'm sure there are
> people who even think capitalism is the answer to the economic crisis...
> >_<

LOL!

Capitalism and "self-regulation".  Isn't the latter what got us into this 
mess in the first place (at least in part)?

Jim

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"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message 
news:4a847bbd$1@news.povray.org...

> Those in favour of continuing private insurance, in my view, overlook
> that public health is, by definition, a public concern.  If we don't take
> care of individuals who get sick because they don't have insurance, we
> risk infecting everyone else.

I think people on all sides miss the real issues. Health care doesn't 
magically become better or worse because it's public or private. Health care 
in both USA and Canada stinks, and the latter is public (and arguably stinks 
more, since well to do Canadians rely on USA for their timely health care 
needs). Granted, the private vs public or how much of each is a major 
decision, but the quality is all in the implementation, economy, management, 
logistics... etc.

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clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> but I'm sure there are 
> people who even think capitalism is the answer to the economic crisis... >_<

  I'm not exactly sure why it wouldn't be.

  At its core, capitalism is about free commerce, and it's precisely free
commerce which keeps the cash flowing.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp schrieb:
>> but I'm sure there are 
>> people who even think capitalism is the answer to the economic crisis... >_<
> 
>   I'm not exactly sure why it wouldn't be.

Maybe because it's exactly this liberal capitalism that got us to where 
we're at right now??

>   At its core, capitalism is about free commerce, and it's precisely free
> commerce which keeps the cash flowing.

At its core, capitalism is also about selfishness, and therefore needs 
to be counterbalanced by some other regulatory mechanisms if it is to 
work for good.

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On 08/13/09 17:24, somebody wrote:
> magically become better or worse because it's public or private. Health care
> in both USA and Canada stinks, and the latter is public (and arguably stinks
> more, since well to do Canadians rely on USA for their timely health care
> needs). Granted, the private vs public or how much of each is a major

	And the Americans rely on India for their timely health care needs as well.

	Your point?
	
	I have an article sitting around here somewhere that claims that in 
Canada (or at least some of the provinces) if someone gets put on a very 
long waiting list, and the doctor feels that it could be really 
dangerous/fatal to wait that long, they're allowed to seek treatment 
elsewhere (e.g. US) and get refunded.

	Can't find a way to confirm it...

	The point being that the long wait times are not necessarily due to 
shortage of money, but due to shortage of doctors.

	And just as an FYI, health care in Canada is almost completely private. 
It's merely government funded. Doctors don't work for the government, 
though.

-- 
Doctor to patient: Although it's nothing serious, let's keep an eye on 
it to make sure it doesn't turn into a major lawsuit.

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