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Darren New schrieb:
> Oh, sorry. Reading it again, I thought it said "structure" and not
> "building". So buildings can be copyrighted but not bridges? Odd.
That would appear to be so indeed.
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>> IMO once you make something available to the public (ie they can just see
>> it for free with no restrictions) then you can't really do much about
>> people copying it.
>
> Of course you can. You can sue them for copying it.
Can you really make something that is visible to the public and then sue
them for taking photos of it? That seems bizarre. *IMO* if you put
something on display for the public to see you have no right to stop people
taking photos and doing what they want with those photos.
> Heck, you think broadcast TV shows aren't copyrighted?
Oh I know they are, but *IMO* if you give something to the public you
shouldn't expect to be able to keep control of it after that. I mean if you
publically broadcast *for free* to the whole population some TV show,
doesn't it seem a bit wrong that two weeks later you then go and try to sue
someone for making a copy? Anyway I don't think that happens, at least in
Europe a lot of the major TV stations seem to putting online all their
previous programs, so you can do it totally legally now without resorting to
bitTorrent.
> That would be license law, not copyright law. That's not even the same
> jurisdiction in the USA.
But I think if the person has explicity agreed to some condition it is
easier to prosecute them, rather than having to get involved with whether
what they did actually broke copyright law or not.
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scott schrieb:
> Can you really make something that is visible to the public and then sue
> them for taking photos of it? That seems bizarre. *IMO* if you put
> something on display for the public to see you have no right to stop
> people taking photos and doing what they want with those photos.
Well, it's not /that/ far-fetched: You're carrying your face around all
day in public, too - still, if anybody wants to publish a photograph of
that particular face taken in public, strictly they'd still need your
agreement.
> Oh I know they are, but *IMO* if you give something to the public you
> shouldn't expect to be able to keep control of it after that. I mean if
> you publically broadcast *for free* to the whole population some TV
> show, doesn't it seem a bit wrong that two weeks later you then go and
> try to sue someone for making a copy?
Now, imagine a simger-songwriter, doing a beneficial puplic gig
somewhere. Would that entitle people to just copy his songs and not pay
him any royalties?
Also note that although TV stations don't charge the public for their
broadcasts, they do charge for it in a sense: They get their money from
companies advertising in the breaks and between the shows. So they're
not really giving away stuff for free - they're making money out of it.
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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Reflecting (and bent) torus on checkered plane
Date: 28 Aug 2009 11:35:37
Message: <4a97f949$1@news.povray.org>
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scott wrote:
> Can you really make something that is visible to the public and then sue
> them for taking photos of it? That seems bizarre.
Can you really give software away for free and then sue someone for not
providing the source with the object code? Can you really broadcast a movie
over radio waves then sue someone for selling tapes they made of the broadcast?
> Oh I know they are, but *IMO* if you give something to the public you
> shouldn't expect to be able to keep control of it after that.
Well, if you're arguing about "should"s rather than "can"s, I have no comment.
>> That would be license law, not copyright law. That's not even the same
>> jurisdiction in the USA.
>
> But I think if the person has explicity agreed to some condition it is
> easier to prosecute them, rather than having to get involved with
> whether what they did actually broke copyright law or not.
Sure, but then we're no longer talking about copyright. Indeed, having a
copyright on something can actually *reduce* the things you can sue over.
For example, if you copyright a picture, then have a contract that someone
signs before you let them see it saying they're not allowed to do something
with it that fair use allows, that part of the contract is unenforcable. (Or
at least was before DMCA - now I don't know.)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Understanding the structure of the universe
via religion is like understanding the
structure of computers via Tron.
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Darren New schrieb:
> Sure, but then we're no longer talking about copyright. Indeed, having a
> copyright on something can actually *reduce* the things you can sue
> over. For example, if you copyright a picture, then have a contract that
> someone signs before you let them see it saying they're not allowed to
> do something with it that fair use allows, that part of the contract is
> unenforcable. (Or at least was before DMCA - now I don't know.)
That appears to make no sense to me, as copyright /always/ exists on a
copyrightable work.
Maybe the mechanism is as follows:
(1) You officialy /register/ your copyright, which requires you to
publish the work (in the register).
(2) From that publication, anyone can freely exercise "fair use" rights.
Versus:
(1) You refrain from officially registering your claim to the copyright
(2) Instead of making the work /publicly/ available, you only present it
to people willing to waive their rights to "fair use".
(3) If they nonetheless copy the work without your consent, they
automatically make their access to the work illegitimate; and as "fair
use" copying requires legitimate access to the work, they're screwed.
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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Reflecting (and bent) torus on checkered plane
Date: 28 Aug 2009 14:30:29
Message: <4a982245$1@news.povray.org>
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clipka wrote:
> That appears to make no sense to me, as copyright /always/ exists on a
> copyrightable work.
The laws have changed over the years. Before the Bourne convention, for
example, this was not a true statement. You had to actually put a copyright
mark on the work for it to be copyrighted.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Understanding the structure of the universe
via religion is like understanding the
structure of computers via Tron.
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On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:17:03 +0200, "scott" <sco### [at] scott com> wrote:
>Can you really make something that is visible to the public and then sue
>them for taking photos of it? That seems bizarre. *IMO* if you put
>something on display for the public to see you have no right to stop people
>taking photos and doing what they want with those photos.
That's what I thought.
--
Regards
Stephen
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From: scott
Subject: Re: Reflecting (and bent) torus on checkered plane
Date: 31 Aug 2009 04:15:39
Message: <4a9b86ab@news.povray.org>
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> Can you really give software away for free and then sue someone for not
> providing the source with the object code?
Assuming it was completely for free (ie you didn't make them sign or agree
to some specific license) then I hope you can't sue them.
> Can you really broadcast a movie over radio waves then sue someone for
> selling tapes they made of the broadcast?
Again, assuming the public are legally allowed to receive that radio
frequency freely, then that transmission is already "released" to the
public. You shouldn't be then allowed to try and control what the public
does with your transmission. If you want to control your work, don't
release it for free to the public.
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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Reflecting (and bent) torus on checkered plane
Date: 31 Aug 2009 11:42:52
Message: <4a9bef7c$1@news.povray.org>
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scott wrote:
>> Can you really give software away for free and then sue someone for
>> not providing the source with the object code?
>
> Assuming it was completely for free (ie you didn't make them sign or
> agree to some specific license) then I hope you can't sue them.
I don't have to agree to any license at all to obtain GPL software. It is
completely free for me to obtain it.
> You shouldn't be then allowed
There's that word "should" again.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Understanding the structure of the universe
via religion is like understanding the
structure of computers via Tron.
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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Reflecting (and bent) torus on checkered plane
Date: 31 Aug 2009 11:43:59
Message: <4a9befbf$1@news.povray.org>
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scott wrote:
> If you want to control your work,
> don't release it for free to the public.
I guess you lose your copyright if you give your book to the library to loan
out?
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Understanding the structure of the universe
via religion is like understanding the
structure of computers via Tron.
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