andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> On 2-8-2009 8:23, John VanSickle wrote:
> > I do, however, see a boatload of
> > Monday-morning quarterbacking.
>
> What on earth is that? Could you explain for us geographically
> challenged people?

From the context I'd guess it's what "couch coaches" typically do on a Monday
morning, after having participated in Sunday's football game in the couch
potato position: They'll team up with their colleagues at work for a round of
"Knowing Better".

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On 3-8-2009 11:53, Stephen wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:30:56 +0200, andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> 
>>> I do the same or so my wife tells me.
> 
> 
>> Take this advice of another victim of this strange behaviour: stop it. 
>> ;) Learn to use phrases like 'he asked me if I would...' in stead of 
>> 'will you...' and 'I asked her if...' in stead of 'will you...'. It will 
>> make the life of the listener so much easier. Also restrict yourself to 
>> the main points and don't act like a tape recorder, that will help the 
>> listener also to understand what you find the most important, and it 
>> saves time.
> 
> I don't recognise myself in that paragraph (maybe it does not translate well). I
> tend to say "he said" and "he did" without mentioning which "he" I mean. But
> with a little effort on the listener's part, mentally shifting subjects when the
> sense is lost, understanding can be obtained :P
> I tend to oscillate between speaking very precisely, as if I were writing a
> functional spec and being too sloppy. 

Or perhaps you are not as bad as my wife, she is able to really quote 
verbatim (or at least that is what she claims). Quoting both herself and 
the other person literally without any indication that it is a quote and 
by whom. Which means that if she uses 'you' she can mean either that 
other person or herself if she is quoting that other or me if she has 
ended the quote. I find it rather confusing at times.
Also sometimes confusing, but what happens to more people, is mentioning 
only a first name and leaving to the other person which one of the Johns 
you both know is meant.

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On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 22:03:00 +0200, andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:

>
>Or perhaps you are not as bad as my wife, she is able to really quote 
>verbatim (or at least that is what she claims). Quoting both herself and 
>the other person literally without any indication that it is a quote and 
>by whom. Which means that if she uses 'you' she can mean either that 
>other person or herself if she is quoting that other or me if she has 
>ended the quote. I find it rather confusing at times.

Ah! A mere male. :) Thus is a common condition for us ;)

>Also sometimes confusing, but what happens to more people, is mentioning 
>only a first name and leaving to the other person which one of the Johns 
>you both know is meant.

But you know that Jan Wit would never do that and Jan Zwart is doing it all the
time so it must have been Jan who said it. Yes or no? :-)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Neeum Zawan wrote:
> On 08/02/09 23:16, Chambers wrote:
>> You have to agree, though, that it isn't economically feasible to supply
>> every treatment available to every individual who might possibly need
>> it. The cost would be so prohibitive as to cripple any economy.
> 
>     Yes. And the relevance of that is...?
> 

That, at some point, you have to make a decision about who gets which 
treatments, taking into consideration all the relevant factors (age, 
other conditions, likelihood of success, and cost).  Excluding any one 
of those factors - even cost - would be irresponsible.

Once you admit that there's a cutoff point somewhere, then it no longer 
becomes a question of whether or not certain people will be denied 
treatment, but only a question of where that cutoff point is.

Too often, the debate is framed as the "we'll provide treatment for 
everyone, no matter what" crowd versus the "we'll provide treatment for 
those who can pay for it themselves" crowd.  Like most real issues, the 
practical solution is one which lies somewhere in the middle.

-- 
Chambers

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clipka wrote:
> Q: How does this sequence continue?
> 
>     M D M D _ _ _
> 
> A: No, it's not "... M D M", it's "... F S S".

I've seen plenty of tests that ask you for the pattern, and I get 
seriously annoyed that the writers of the test didn't think of *my* 
pattern.  After all, *mine* is perfectly logical, and describes the 
demonstrated sequence exactly... so why *isn't* it the correct answer?

-- 
Chambers

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Neeum Zawan wrote:
> On 08/02/09 22:57, Chambers wrote:
>> I've seen interviews with several people from his staff who talked of
>> the pressure exerted on them to present information that fit in with the
>> higher-up's views (though it's not clear if the pressure came from Bush
>> himself, or if Cheney was trying to keep him misinformed).
> 
>     Oh sure. However, that doesn't translate to "deluded".

OK, then, maybe "deluded" is a bit strong.  "Misinformed," perhaps?  Or 
even just "biased?"

-- 
Chambers

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Chambers wrote:
> Once you admit that there's a cutoff point somewhere, then it no longer 
> becomes a question of whether or not certain people will be denied 
> treatment, but only a question of where that cutoff point is.

Just like organ transplants.

I think I read somewhere a while ago that Canada just ranks all the 
treatments in terms of value per dollar, then adds up the dollars until they 
run out of budget, and then says "anyone with these problems below this line 
isn't going to get cured", basically.  Seems like a reasonable way to go.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
    back to version 1.0."
   "We've done that already. We call it 2.0."

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On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:23:55 -0700, Chambers
<Ben### [at] gmailcom_no_underscores> wrote:

>clipka wrote:
>> Q: How does this sequence continue?
>> 
>>     M D M D _ _ _
>> 
>> A: No, it's not "... M D M", it's "... F S S".
>
>I've seen plenty of tests that ask you for the pattern, and I get 
>seriously annoyed that the writers of the test didn't think of *my* 
>pattern.  After all, *mine* is perfectly logical, and describes the 
>demonstrated sequence exactly... so why *isn't* it the correct answer?

It is a correct answer but one that the point giver gives zero points for. Thus
showing the meaninglessness of IQ tests.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Stephen wrote:
> On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:23:55 -0700, Chambers
> <Ben### [at] gmailcom_no_underscores> wrote:
> 
>> clipka wrote:
>>> Q: How does this sequence continue?
>>>
>>>     M D M D _ _ _
>>>
>>> A: No, it's not "... M D M", it's "... F S S".
>> I've seen plenty of tests that ask you for the pattern, and I get 
>> seriously annoyed that the writers of the test didn't think of *my* 
>> pattern.  After all, *mine* is perfectly logical, and describes the 
>> demonstrated sequence exactly... so why *isn't* it the correct answer?
> 
> It is a correct answer but one that the point giver gives zero points for. Thus
> showing the meaninglessness of IQ tests.

The question is about the particular sequence MDMDFSS.  Not 'any 
sequence that begins with MDMD'.  So anything other than 'FSS' is not 
*the* correct answer.  It is, however, their fault that the sequence 
does have other obvious continuations.  A bit like saying "1, 2, 3, ..., 
what comes next?", it could be 4, it could be 5, it could be 10...

Saying that that shows the meaninglessness of IQ tests implies that IQ 
tests are composed entirely of questions where there are multiple valid 
(and more obvious) answers.  They're not.  They *are* generally geared 
towards the culture of the person taking them, however.  Perhaps they 
just need greater specialisation for particular sub-sections of 
cultures?  ^_^

--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.freesitespace.net

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On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 04:12:46 -0400, Tim Cook <z99### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

>
>The question is about the particular sequence MDMDFSS.  Not 'any 
>sequence that begins with MDMD'.  So anything other than 'FSS' is not 
>*the* correct answer.  It is, however, their fault that the sequence 
>does have other obvious continuations.  A bit like saying "1, 2, 3, ..., 
>what comes next?", it could be 4, it could be 5, it could be 10...
>

I beg to differ; the question is about tricking people and showing the absurdity
of improperly defined tests. You might say that the "_ _ _" indicates that there
are only three more letters in the sequence. But the similarity between "_ _ _"

really diferentiate IMO. As you point out. 
"FSS" is the "correct answer" for one set of circumstancies.


>Saying that that shows the meaninglessness of IQ tests implies that IQ 
>tests are composed entirely of questions where there are multiple valid 
>(and more obvious) answers.  They're not.  They *are* generally geared 
>towards the culture of the person taking them, however.  Perhaps they 
>just need greater specialisation for particular sub-sections of 
>cultures?  ^_^

Again I dissagree with what you wrote. When you say that "They *are* generally
geared towards the culture of the person taking them" that is the reply to the
critisim that IQ tests are culturely dependant. It does not take into account
education and different types of brain development. I believe that IQ tests are
a flawed concept. If it were not then you would not be able to better your score
by any significant amout, again IMO.

I suspect that you don't really disagree (-_o)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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