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Darren New wrote:
> Maybe I'm just spoiled by Thief
> and Deus Ex.
A few years ago they released an announcement trailer for DE3, by the
way. Hmm, I wonder what happened to that... ok, looks like it's set for
release in '10.
Man, I wish they would forget about sequels, and just make a next-gen
version of the original instead :)
BTW, from all the talk you do of the Thief series, I can't believe I've
never tried them...
--
Chambers
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Chambers wrote:
> BTW, from all the talk you do of the Thief series, I can't believe I've
> never tried them...
The first two are great. I've played each at least half a dozen times. And
cheap - $3 in the bargain bin if you can find it.
The third? Meh. I can't even work up the enthusiasm to finish it.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Insanity is a small city on the western
border of the State of Mind.
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On 9-7-2009 0:54, Tim Cook wrote:
> Warp wrote:
>> Of course the stories, settings and paths are rather fixed because it
>> would be quite impossible for a computer to generate the story as it
>> goes,
>
> I'm not so sure about that. While in theory there are an unlimited
> number of stories, they're constructed of discreet elements that show up
> repeatedly even in widely varied plots. There are even fewer stories
> that readily qualify as 'stereotypical RPG fare', even taking
> mind-bending plot-twists-from-left-field into consideration. So it's
> really just a matter of chaining together elements from a table,
> throwing in unique names and geography, balancing mechanics (which could
> probably be done by the software, really...run a few hundred simulated
> events in the background, adjusting things as needed), and you have a
> computer-generated 'unique' storyline. How complex it is is really just
> determined by quality of the table from which it grabs elements.
So you want to create in interactive soap?
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andrel wrote:
> So you want to create in interactive soap?
Absolutely. That'd be awesome! Way better than existing games where
once you've played it, that's it. Even multiple-ending things with a
few internal branchings are lame compared to something that's entirely
new each time you start a new game! XD
--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.freesitespace.net
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Darren New escreveu:
> I never realized before that when people talk about an "RPG" game, they
> mean one involving "leveling up". I always thought it had something to
> do with, I dunno, role playing or something. :-)
Pretty much all videogames are about "role playing" in a broad sense.
Few however live up to the original Dungeons & Dragons turn-based combat
+ stats and leveling up.
--
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9
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nemesis <nam### [at] gmail com> wrote:
> Pretty much all videogames are about "role playing" in a broad sense.
> Few however live up to the original Dungeons & Dragons turn-based combat
> + stats and leveling up.
"live up to the original..."?
The irony about this all is that what most computer players consider
"role-playing elements" was actually adapted by D&D from the older "fantasy
wargames" genre to combine with *actual* role-playing - of which the majority
of computer games have virtually *nothing*.
So a more fitting term for this trait in computer games would be "fantasy
wargames elements".
I'd say role-playing in computer games starts where you are free to address
quests by significantly different means (e.g. stealth vs. brute force vs.
wits), *and* this subsequently affects other characters' behavior towards you.
A good start in this respect, IMO, are games like "The Guild", in which you can
make friends and enemies among the AI characters, may get charged for crimes,
and stuff like that...
*That* is what I'd consider "role-playing" in computer games - not exact
simulation of the D&D combat & skills system.
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clipka wrote:
> I'd say role-playing in computer games starts where you are free to address
> quests by significantly different means (e.g. stealth vs. brute force vs.
> wits), *and* this subsequently affects other characters' behavior towards you.
Yep. Deus Ex was a prime example of this. I think Black&White tried to do
something like this, but the game was so lacking I never got past the
mid-point, so it's hard to say.
> A good start in this respect, IMO, are games like "The Guild", in which you can
> make friends and enemies among the AI characters, may get charged for crimes,
> and stuff like that...
I'll have to see about that one.
> *That* is what I'd consider "role-playing" in computer games - not exact
> simulation of the D&D combat & skills system.
Exactly my original point. I was trying to figure out why Bioshock was an
RPG and Half-Life was a FPS, and someone somewhere mentioned you can improve
your skills in Bioshock, and buy better versions of skills, and I twigged.
"D&D is an RPG. D&D has level-ups. Hence, RPGs have level-ups." Bzzt.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
back to version 1.0."
"We've done that already. We call it 2.0."
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clipka <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> The irony about this all is that what most computer players consider
> "role-playing elements" was actually adapted by D&D from the older "fantasy
> wargames" genre to combine with *actual* role-playing - of which the majority
> of computer games have virtually *nothing*.
I wouldn't say "nothing". While it's technically too difficult to have
the same kind of freedom as a tabletop game run by a human DM, some computer
RPGs do have some variation depending on your choices.
The most typical variation in computer games is based on your "karma"
(for the lack of a better name): If you do good things and make choices
which show compassion and empathy, NPCs will behave differently towards
you than if you act in evil and selfish ways and act like a bully. In the
worst extreme you will be a wanted criminal who can't even enter cities
(unless using stealth) because all the guards will immediately attack you.
I think Baldur's Gate 2 goes a long way in this direction. Most of the
NPCs in your party are completely optional, you can bully them and drive
them off, or you can make them like you, and you can even lose them
*forever*. (There's actually a really nasty spell which some enemies cast
which will destroy a member of your party irrecoverably, ie. that member
will be truely lost forever, and you can't get him/her back ever again.
That can really hurt if you had emotionally invested in that particular NPC.)
--
- Warp
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Btw, do you know what I think is the closest thing to a role-playing game
among computer games? The Sims, and its sequels.
The only thing it doesn't have is dungeon crawling and monster fighting,
but otherwise it's difficult to get any closer to actual role-playing in
a computer game.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> Btw, do you know what I think is the closest thing to a role-playing game
> among computer games? The Sims, and its sequels.
Is there any actual game involved there? Everything I've always seen made it
look like there's no goal other than to create people you then beat up.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
back to version 1.0."
"We've done that already. We call it 2.0."
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