scott wrote:
>> And where in this thread have I complained about having to do IT work?
>>
>> I complained about Acrobat not performing its intended function. I 
>> complained about Live Meeting not working properly. I complained about 
>> having to deal with people who can't speak English and can't work 
>> computers.
> 
> All of those seem like completely normal things that an IT person should 
> have to handle in the course of their day.  Software not working as it 
> should, dealing with people who can't use computers, having to do "IT 
> things" for people, all seems reasonable to me.

Well, you know, I fix things all the time. I don't usually complain 
about them. (Already today, I've fixed 4 seperate problems, and not 
complained about any of them.) It just exarsperates me when an extremely 
expensive peice of software doesn't provide the features you'd expect it 
to. Or when I'm expected to help somebody who doesn't speak English.

>> If anything computer-related goes wrong, this is by definition *my* 
>> fault. No matter how unreasonable that may be...
> 
> Did you try explaining your thoughts to these people?

Sure. You try explaining these things in a way that doesn't sound like 
you're just inventing excuses.

>> I gave up trying years ago. Nobody takes the slightest bit of notice 
>> what I say. Everybody seems to assume I just don't know what I'm 
>> talking about.
> 
> Why do you think that is?

I'm not really sure.

Historically, my boss always thought I was an amazingly smart guy, and 
the people across the pond always thought I was an idiot. There was a 
lot of friction over that. But hey, he's gone now. It seems the people 
at the top of IT are just so sure they know everything there is to know 
that anybody else can't possibly know anything. Or something like that. 
And our site manager is just a moron.

>> (Like when we leased that extra room, and Fathead had some contractors 
>> come in and lay a fiber-optic link between the two comms cabinets. We 
>> don't actually *have* any equipment which can interface with 
>> fiber-optics. But hey, who asked me? Fathead just comes to me one day 
>> and says "so all the comms are live in that room now, right?")
> 
> And what happened then after you explained to him the situation? And 
> what did he reply when you asked him why nobody consulted you first?

He said "oh" and wandered off.

To this day, that room still isn't live. But then, it seems it's become 
a store room anyway, so...

>> Well, my skiing trip was kind of different. I didn't have to go by 
>> myself, I didn't have to find where I was going, I didn't have to 
>> speak to anybody or pay for anything.
> 
> On business trips you don't have to pay for anything, and when you get 
> there either someone will pick you up or just simply tell a taxi driver 
> the address of your hotel.  It's a lot easier and comfortable when you 
> don't have to consider how to save money continuously while you are 
> travelling.
> 
> The other cool thing is that most companies will allow you to take some 
> holiday either before or after your trip to spend some leisure time 
> wherever you are going, in some cases this longer stay even makes the 
> plane ticket cheaper for them, so you can negotiate them to pay for your 
> holiday accommodation too :-)
> 
> But then if you're not interested in the slightest of visiting foreign 
> countries, then I guess that doesn't appeal to you at all.

I've always disliked travelling and being in unfamiliar places. It's 
something I sometimes do when there's a very large reward on offer, but 
generally I try to avoid it if possible. Certainly the idea of being 
stranded all alone in a country where I can't even tell what people are 
saying to me is rather intimidating.

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> Or when I'm expected to help somebody who doesn't speak English.

It's a good skill to have, being able to communicate with people who can't 
speak English that well.  Even though it just seems like common sense that 
you need to speak slower and clearer, and try not to use any unusual words 
or difficult sentence constructs, it's surprising how many people just don't 
get it and carry on talking completely normally when the other person 
obviously doesn't have a clue.

> Sure. You try explaining these things in a way that doesn't sound like 
> you're just inventing excuses.

Umm, "I agree completely 100% with you, I have proposed it to management 
several times, but they said they just don't have the money".

> And our site manager is just a moron.

You said that a lot of people there have PhDs? They can't all be completely 
stupid!

>> And what happened then after you explained to him the situation? And what 
>> did he reply when you asked him why nobody consulted you first?
>
> He said "oh" and wandered off.

So you asked to meet with him later to discuss what to do with the useless 
equipment he just ordered to be installed and how to make sure it doesn't 
happen again?  Seems to me that's what the IT guy should be doing.

> To this day, that room still isn't live. But then, it seems it's become a 
> store room anyway, so...

So what are you planning to do with the stuff in that room?  What's the plan 
IT guy?

> Certainly the idea of being stranded all alone in a country where I can't 
> even tell what people are saying to me is rather intimidating.

"Sorry I don't understand" let's them know the situation, even if they don't 
understand English.  It also helps to just learn a handful of common words 
from the place you are visiting, just things like thanks, please, hello, bye 
etc.  Also remember that most people are friendly are are happy to see a 
foreign person, there's no need to be intimidated.  I find it best to always 
print out the home page of the place you are staying in the local language, 
so that you can just show that to the taxi driver or someone at a train 
station etc.

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scott wrote:
>  Try
> getting up at 4am, sitting on a plane for 8 hours, then going to a
> customer meeting for 2 hours, then having dinner (in a time zone 6 hours
> behind where you started), then having a 3 hour conference call with
> non-English-speaking people, then going to bed 24 hours after you got
> up, then working 16 hours a day for a week.  Want to swap?
> 
> 

Luxury!! When I was a lad .... &c &c :-D

John
-- 
"Eppur si muove" - Galileo Galilei

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> Luxury!!

I knew someone was going to say that :-)  Remember, there's always someone 
worse off than you.

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scott wrote:
>> Or when I'm expected to help somebody who doesn't speak English.
> 
> It's a good skill to have, being able to communicate with people who 
> can't speak English that well.  Even though it just seems like common 
> sense that you need to speak slower and clearer, and try not to use any 
> unusual words or difficult sentence constructs, it's surprising how many 
> people just don't get it and carry on talking completely normally when 
> the other person obviously doesn't have a clue.

Well when the line keeps cutting out and the person at the other end is 
being hostile towards me, it doesn't make for a fun day, let's put it 
that way.

I'm not an interpretter, I'm a computer technition.

>> Sure. You try explaining these things in a way that doesn't sound like 
>> you're just inventing excuses.
> 
> Umm, "I agree completely 100% with you, I have proposed it to management 
> several times, but they said they just don't have the money".

And they walk off muttering "yeah, whatever, we believe you".

>> And our site manager is just a moron.
> 
> You said that a lot of people there have PhDs? They can't all be 
> completely stupid!

...did I?

Anyway, I'm sure the people in the lab aren't stupid. But our site 
manager... is. Nobody likes him. All he does is swagger around in that 
arrogant self-important way, and spend all day on Facebook. If you 
actually *ask* him something, he hasn't got a clue what you're talking 
about. But hey, he's only here because it'll look good on his CV.

>>> And what happened then after you explained to him the situation? And 
>>> what did he reply when you asked him why nobody consulted you first?
>>
>> He said "oh" and wandered off.
> 
> So you asked to meet with him later to discuss what to do with the 
> useless equipment he just ordered to be installed and how to make sure 
> it doesn't happen again?  Seems to me that's what the IT guy should be 
> doing.

Not a case of "just" ordered; this was about a month after they 
installed it. (Not that he *told* me or anything. I just "found out" 
when I went into the server room one day and an extra patch panel had 
appeared. But hey, I'm only the IT guy...) Presumably he just sort of 
mumbled "uh... data... uh... connection... thingy?" and the salesman 
said "fiber link?" and he said "oh, yeah, that sounds computery, we'll 
have six of those". [Why six? WTF?]

>> To this day, that room still isn't live. But then, it seems it's 
>> become a store room anyway, so...
> 
> So what are you planning to do with the stuff in that room?  What's the 
> plan IT guy?

The "stuff" consists of a cabinet (which was there when the builders 
built the place) and some fibers going into it. I have asked on several 
occasions what's going on with this room - the general response being 
"uh, dunno". [More like "I don't give a crap"...]

>> Certainly the idea of being stranded all alone in a country where I 
>> can't even tell what people are saying to me is rather intimidating.
> 
> "Sorry I don't understand" let's them know the situation, even if they 
> don't understand English.  It also helps to just learn a handful of 
> common words from the place you are visiting, just things like thanks, 
> please, hello, bye etc.  Also remember that most people are friendly are 
> are happy to see a foreign person, there's no need to be intimidated.  I 
> find it best to always print out the home page of the place you are 
> staying in the local language, so that you can just show that to the 
> taxi driver or someone at a train station etc.

In my experience, approximately nobody is ever happy to see me, for any 
reason.

It turns out most Swiss people speak English way better than I will ever 
speak French or German. But that doesn't make it much less disorienting 
or intimidating. [Face it, I went to *Liverpool* and couldn't understand 
people!]

But yeah, if I had to go somewhere by myself, your suggestions are the 
sort of thing I'd do.

[My mum actually bought me a little translater gizmo. She's most 
offended that I never take it with me. But... well, I asked it to say 
something in English, and *I* couldn't tell WTF it was saying. E.g., ask 
it to say "hotel" and it says "owa".]

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scott wrote:
>> Luxury!!
> 
> I knew someone was going to say that :-)  Remember, there's always 
> someone worse off than you.

What, no limbless 3rd-world people in this NG?

[No, no there isn't. And you know why? No computers...]

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> I'm not an interpretter, I'm a computer technition.

Sure, but if you need to do a little interpreting to help your main job then 
so be it.

> And they walk off muttering "yeah, whatever, we believe you".

So you forward them the email you got from management in reply to your 
suggestion.  And you email everyone reminding them to log a IT call if they 
ever experience an unacceptable delay in the external network so that you 
can inform management how severe the problem is, etc - be proactive, let 
people see that you are working rather than just hiding away and waiting for 
them to come to you.

> All he does is swagger around in that arrogant self-important way, and 
> spend all day on Facebook.

Well you're the IT guy - block facebook, and when he complains tell him that 
the bandwidth is so limited on your low speed connection that you had to 
block non-work sites to allow people to do their jobs more efficiently.  Of 
course if you had a faster connection these rules could be relaxed a little 
:-)

> The "stuff" consists of a cabinet (which was there when the builders built 
> the place) and some fibers going into it. I have asked on several 
> occasions what's going on with this room - the general response being "uh, 
> dunno". [More like "I don't give a crap"...]

Surely the obvious response is then "well who *does* know then?"  As the IT 
guy it seems pretty reasonable that you need to know why this stuff is 
there.  Don't stop until you get to the top :-)

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Doctor John <joh### [at] homecom> wrote:

> Luxury!! When I was a lad .... &c &c :-D
>

When I was a lad I served a term
As office boy to an Attorney's firm.
I cleaned the windows and I swept the floor,
And I polished up the handle of the big front door

I polished up that handle so carefullee
That now I am the Ruler of the Queen's Navee!

That one?

Stephen

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>> Luxury!! When I was a lad .... &c &c :-D
>>
> 
> When I was a lad I served a term
> As office boy to an Attorney's firm.
> I cleaned the windows and I swept the floor,
> And I polished up the handle of the big front door
> 
> I polished up that handle so carefullee
> That now I am the Ruler of the Queen's Navee!
> 
> That one?

Finally, obscure quotations that I recognise...

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>> And they walk off muttering "yeah, whatever, we believe you".
> 
> So you forward them the email you got from management in reply to your 
> suggestion.

If I had it in writing, sure...

> And you email everyone reminding them to log a IT call if 
> they ever experience an unacceptable delay in the external network so 
> that you can inform management how severe the problem is, etc.

Nobody will bother. They'll log a call, see that nothing happens 
instantly, and never bother again.

> be 
> proactive, let people see that you are working rather than just hiding 
> away and waiting for them to come to you.

I used to be quite proactive - trying to fix things before they broke, 
etc. But now so much of our infrastructure isn't actually under my 
control anyway, it seems every time something breaks all I can actually 
do is call America and ask them to fix it. Which just makes it look like 
I'm incapable of doing my job without help. (Well, maybe I wouldn't be 
if they'd tell me how these systems actually work, and give me access to 
look at them when things go wrong...)

>> All he does is swagger around in that arrogant self-important way, and 
>> spend all day on Facebook.
> 
> Well you're the IT guy - block facebook

I don't have the power to do that. Only the Network Administrator can.

>> The "stuff" consists of a cabinet (which was there when the builders 
>> built the place) and some fibers going into it. I have asked on 
>> several occasions what's going on with this room - the general 
>> response being "uh, dunno". [More like "I don't give a crap"...]
> 
> Surely the obvious response is then "well who *does* know then?"  As the 
> IT guy it seems pretty reasonable that you need to know why this stuff 
> is there.  Don't stop until you get to the top :-)

I think basically everybody's lost interest. They're talking about 
renting that space out to somebody else - but it'll be interesting to 
see what they do with the bundles of stuff stored in there. ;-)

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