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Darren New wrote:
> Eero Ahonen wrote:
>> It's possible that I just haven't seen the right one, but every single
>> LCD-viewfinder I've seen has seriously lagged behind the real world,
>
> My Sony lags one picture behind, basically.
Plus, of course, if you're in the dark, you can line up the shot with
infrared before you take the shot with the flash. :-) Or without the flash,
for that matter.
Definite benefits either way, I suppose.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Insanity is a small city on the western
border of the State of Mind.
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Darren New wrote:
> My Sony lags one picture behind, basically. If you're in the dark and
> it's going to take a 1/2 second exposure to get the picture, it lags
> half a second. But you see how bright it's going to be (assuming you're
> not using the flash and assuming you're not *way* out of line, like into
> the >2s exposures), and if things are moving so fast the viewfinder
> can't keep up, chances are the rest of the camera won't keep up
either. :-)
>
It doubles the delay - when you're aiming for the shot you'll need to
stop for a moment to see what you're shooting. Maybe it's me and my
habit to make fast turns etc, but I've found it annoingly disturbing.
>
> Plus, of course, if you're in the dark, you can line up the shot with
> infrared before you take the shot with the flash. :-) Or without the
> flash, for that matter.
Yes, that's a benefit. But missing that on D90 (does it miss that?) it's
because of software, not because of existence of the optical viewfinder.
As you know, with D90 you can shoot video and AFAIK you see the video on
the LCD at the same time, which proves that it's technically perfectly
possible to turn the mirror, catch the light to the sensor and show it
on screen. Nothing (except filtering optics) prevents from using the IR.
Also nothing (except price) prevents from making the LCD turnable so
that you could use it as a viewfinder while shooting over crowd.
> Definite benefits either way, I suppose.
>
Yep, except nothing stops camera makers from implementing the SLR LCD to
work as a viewfinder and getting those benefits. They just haven't done
it, at least not yet.
-Aero
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:23:39 +0200, Darren New <dne### [at] san rrcom> wrote:
>> Phase-detect is generally faster, often much faster.
>
> That I noticed, just playing with the live view. Contrast-detect is
> pretty quick on the sony, assuming that's what it's using.
It is, but the large depth of field (because of the much smaller sensor)
means that the AF need not be as accurate. The smaller camera also has
much smaller pieces of glass to move when focusing.
>>> I didn't find the circular polarizer to have any noticable effect on
>>> my photos, tho.
>> If you are aiming for the "deep-blue sky" look, you will want to point
>> need to turn the polariser to match.
>
> It's a circular polarizer? I'm pretty sure reflections are linearly
> polarized, than that's usually when I want a particular polarizer.
That is not what "circular polariser" means. A CPL is basically just a
regular linear polariser with a quarter-wave plate on the inside surface.
The effect on the resulting image is the same.
--
FE
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:35:34 +0200, Eero Ahonen
<aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid> wrote:
> Yep, except nothing stops camera makers from implementing the SLR LCD to
> work as a viewfinder and getting those benefits. They just haven't done
> it, at least not yet.
They have. It is called "Live view" and is pretty much standard on recent
SLRs.
Another feature that has been standard for years (with both SLRs and
smaller cameras) is that you can hook up the camera to a computer and use
the computer screen as a viewfinder and/or review screen.
--
FE
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Fredrik Eriksson wrote:
> It is, but the large depth of field (because of the much smaller sensor)
> means that the AF need not be as accurate.
True. The sensor is both smaller and has fewer pixels on the sony.
> The smaller camera also has
> much smaller pieces of glass to move when focusing.
It's not *that* much smaller. I'm not talking about a point-and-shoot here
as such. :-)
> That is not what "circular polariser" means. A CPL is basically just a
> regular linear polariser with a quarter-wave plate on the inside
> surface. The effect on the resulting image is the same.
Oh! Well, I thought it selected out the circularly polarized light, but a
quick wikipedia check explains it. Very cool. I'll definitely try it again.
I had tried it before and not gotten a noticable result, but I must have
messed it up.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Insanity is a small city on the western
border of the State of Mind.
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Eero Ahonen wrote:
> It doubles the delay - when you're aiming for the shot you'll need to
> stop for a moment to see what you're shooting.
If the lens is big enough, the delay becomes trivial. I don't notice a 1/10"
delay, myself, and almost all my daytime shots are faster than that. YMMV.
It certainly takes longer to focus than to get the image from the lens to
the LCD. :-)
>> Plus, of course, if you're in the dark, you can line up the shot with
>> infrared before you take the shot with the flash. :-) Or without the
>> flash, for that matter.
>
> Yes, that's a benefit. But missing that on D90 (does it miss that?)
As far as I know, yes.
> it's because of software, not because of existence of the optical viewfinder.
Well, no, it's because the D90 doesn't have an infrared filter that drops
down over the lens when you say "use infrared." :-)
If you had an optical filter and you're trying to line things up with
infrared, you *eye* would have to be seeing the infrared.
> As you know, with D90 you can shoot video and AFAIK you see the video on
> the LCD at the same time, which proves that it's technically perfectly
> possible to turn the mirror, catch the light to the sensor and show it
> on screen. Nothing (except filtering optics) prevents from using the IR.
Sure. I was just discussing some of the benefits of LCD viewfinder over
optical viewfinder.
> Also nothing (except price) prevents from making the LCD turnable so
> that you could use it as a viewfinder while shooting over crowd.
Indeed.
>> Definite benefits either way, I suppose.
>
> Yep, except nothing stops camera makers from implementing the SLR LCD to
> work as a viewfinder and getting those benefits. They just haven't done
> it, at least not yet.
Sure they have. That's exactly what I'm talking about hte Sony F707 doing,
aren't I? That's basically just what the Sony does, except it has an LCD in
the back and another behind the viewfinder.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Insanity is a small city on the western
border of the State of Mind.
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Fredrik Eriksson wrote:
> Another feature that has been standard for years (with both SLRs and
> smaller cameras) is that you can hook up the camera to a computer and
> use the computer screen as a viewfinder and/or review screen.
See webcam timershot:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Works good, altho I haven't tried it with the D90 yet.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Insanity is a small city on the western
border of the State of Mind.
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Fredrik Eriksson wrote:
>
> They have. It is called "Live view" and is pretty much standard on
> recent SLRs.
Also for IR? And the tilting LCD AFAIK is still unseen on SLR.
> Another feature that has been standard for years (with both SLRs and
> smaller cameras) is that you can hook up the camera to a computer and
> use the computer screen as a viewfinder and/or review screen.
Yes, but laptop is a bit.. problematic on crowd :).
-Aero
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Darren New wrote:
>
> It certainly takes longer to focus than to get the image from the lens
> to the LCD. :-)
You clearly use AF :-).
>> it's because of software, not because of existence of the optical
>> viewfinder.
>
> Well, no, it's because the D90 doesn't have an infrared filter that
> drops down over the lens when you say "use infrared." :-)
Is that actually needed? I think the image could be manipulated
automatically by the software when you say "use infrared".
> If you had an optical filter and you're trying to line things up with
> infrared, you *eye* would have to be seeing the infrared.
Ehm... What's a filter dropping in front of the lens if not optical? :-)
Yes, if you want to see the IR at the optical viewfinder, you surely
need to see IR. But IMO it should be able to be done by the software (at
least well enough for lining up the image - you don't actually need a
HQ-image for that, at least at dark when you're using exposure times of
multiple seconds anyway).
> Sure. I was just discussing some of the benefits of LCD viewfinder over
> optical viewfinder.
You were also wondering why SLR still needs the R :-).
>> Yep, except nothing stops camera makers from implementing the SLR LCD to
>> work as a viewfinder and getting those benefits. They just haven't done
>> it, at least not yet.
>
> Sure they have. That's exactly what I'm talking about hte Sony F707
> doing, aren't I? That's basically just what the Sony does, except it
> has an LCD in the back and another behind the viewfinder.
>
F707 is a SLR? I thought it's a pocket camera (no, I didn't check) or a
"half-SLR (SL?)"
-Aero
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:42:01 +0200, Eero Ahonen
<aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid> wrote:
>> They have. It is called "Live view" and is pretty much standard on
>> recent SLRs.
>
> Also for IR?
That is a matter of optics and filtering. Most cameras have an IR-blocking
filter mounted over the sensor.
> And the tilting LCD AFAIK is still unseen on SLR.
Not unseen, just uncommon.
> Yes, but laptop is a bit.. problematic on crowd :).
http://laptop.istheshit.net
--
FE
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