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>> Yeah, well... some people don't seem to realise that this is even the
>> wrong response.
>
> If you want to stop your car actually spinning around and are happy for
> it just to carry on sliding in a predictable manner then slamming on the
> brakes is the best thing to do. If you don't then at some point the car
> will get some grip back and make some sudden movement you probably
> weren't expecting. Depends on the situation of course, but it's wrong to
> say never brake if you are skidding.
Sure. But slamming the brakes hard on while making wild steering
movements is really not a good way to regain control of the vehicle.
That's all I'm saying.
>> I guess that's the thing. When I was a child, it used to snow *every
>> year*. As in, the whole country would be under perhaps a foot or so of
>> snow for at least a few weeks every single year.
>
> Sorry, but IIRC I'm roughly the same age as you and I certainly don't
> remember it ever being like that. I can remember ONCE when we had as
> much snow as you seem to have had recently, that was the only time I got
> to see a snow plough come down our road. Certainly it never lasted for
> more than a day or two, and certainly not every year.
Maybe it varies across the UK? Apparently (according to the MET office)
the average temperature in, say, Devon is several degrees higher than
where I live.
Certainly this is the first time I can remember this millennium when
there's been enough snow to make a real snowman, not an anemic excuse
for one. Last time I can remember that happening is 1994 - which is a
rather long time ago.
As I say, it used to be a regular yearly thing. That's why we have
Christmas cards showing the English countryside burried under feet of
snow. It used to happen all the time. It's rare now...
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On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 11:16:39 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] dev null> wrote:
> Last time I can remember that happening is 1994 - which is a
>rather long time ago.
>
Whippersnapper
>As I say, it used to be a regular yearly thing. That's why we have
>Christmas cards showing the English countryside burried under feet of
>snow. It used to happen all the time. It's rare now...
Winters are getting milder IMO too.
--
Regards
Stephen
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> Sure. But slamming the brakes hard on while making wild steering movements
> is really not a good way to regain control of the vehicle. That's all I'm
> saying.
Any wild movements are never good, even on wet or dry roads :-)
> Maybe it varies across the UK? Apparently (according to the MET office)
> the average temperature in, say, Devon is several degrees higher than
> where I live.
Yeh I guess growing up within a few miles of the south coast kept things
pretty warm...
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scott wrote:
>> Sure. But slamming the brakes hard on while making wild steering
>> movements is really not a good way to regain control of the vehicle.
>> That's all I'm saying.
>
> Any wild movements are never good, even on wet or dry roads :-)
Uh, affirm.
>> Maybe it varies across the UK? Apparently (according to the MET
>> office) the average temperature in, say, Devon is several degrees
>> higher than where I live.
>
> Yeh I guess growing up within a few miles of the south coast kept things
> pretty warm...
I got two words for you. One of them means a large gap, and the other
means a small water course... ;-)
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scott wrote:
>
> Any wild movements are never good, even on wet or dry roads :-)
>
But still they can be so fun! Oh, I really need a new RWD-wintertoy
after I sold my old Volvo...
-Aero
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Jim Henderson wrote:
>
> Well, brakes tend to be "on or off", if you don't have ABS, pumping the
New car's brakes usually feel like that, but after a while one can found
a analog curve of braking power in even them.
> What I do on ice if accelerating is take my foot off the gas and drop the
> car to 3rd gear (I drive an automatic, but this works in a manual
> transmission car as well). Don't touch the brakes, because in general it
> won't do anything but cause you to lose control.
You don't have to slam the brakes, you know? The curve for braking power
is analog one (ie. non-digital), so you can amount any power between
minimum and maximum to the brakes (like you do at summer, just be more
careful). Naturally the feeling is different in different cars, but it's
still there, it just need a bit of practice.
> I also will occasionally tap the brakes to see if the car will slow
> down. It's important to do this while the wheels are pointing forward,
> though; if you do this and have the wheels turned, you could spin out of
> control if the circumstances are right.
Another way is to give some gas and check if the wheels start spinning.
On FWD car this won't make any kind of spinning of the car itself.
Naturally you'll need to know your tires to know how well you can brake
by this test.
> The best option is to find a different route if you encounter an icy hill
> - up or down.
If you'll need to get up an icy hill outside of public roads and have an
FWD car, go reverse - you'll gain more traction on the front wheels that
way.
> The important thing when driving on ice is to not make any sudden changes
> - sudden turns, slamming on the brakes, fast acceleration - all of these
> can cause a loss of control.
True. It's also a good habit to find a large field oslt to test out
these things. The better you'll feel the road and know the car, the
better your instincts will perform before you can think what's even
happening - therefore the better are your chances to survive ;).
> Jim
-Aero
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On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 19:06:29 +0200, Eero Ahonen wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>>
>> Well, brakes tend to be "on or off", if you don't have ABS, pumping the
>
> New car's brakes usually feel like that, but after a while one can found
> a analog curve of braking power in even them.
True.
>> What I do on ice if accelerating is take my foot off the gas and drop
>> the car to 3rd gear (I drive an automatic, but this works in a manual
>> transmission car as well). Don't touch the brakes, because in general
>> it won't do anything but cause you to lose control.
>
> You don't have to slam the brakes, you know? The curve for braking power
> is analog one (ie. non-digital), so you can amount any power between
> minimum and maximum to the brakes (like you do at summer, just be more
> careful). Naturally the feeling is different in different cars, but it's
> still there, it just need a bit of practice.
Well, I've only got something like 20 years of experience driving during
winters in Minnesota and Utah to call on. It's been my experience that
it is generally more effective to downshift and let the engine do the
work. Unless you know with relative precision how slippery it is,
tapping the breaks can be a bad prospect.
I've managed to put two cars in the ditch in 20 years. One from
overcorrecting a spin, and one for not slowing down enough because some
jackass was tailgating me. I've never managed to put my car in the ditch
by stepping on the brakes, because I was taught not to do that and I
don't. <shrug> I can't argue with what works for me.
>> I also will occasionally tap the brakes to see if the car will slow
>> down. It's important to do this while the wheels are pointing forward,
>> though; if you do this and have the wheels turned, you could spin out
>> of control if the circumstances are right.
>
> Another way is to give some gas and check if the wheels start spinning.
> On FWD car this won't make any kind of spinning of the car itself.
> Naturally you'll need to know your tires to know how well you can brake
> by this test.
Yes, that will also work, but yes, it is dependent on knowing the
condition of your tires. I think we both can agree that there is a high
degree of situational awareness called for.
>> The best option is to find a different route if you encounter an icy
>> hill - up or down.
>
> If you'll need to get up an icy hill outside of public roads and have an
> FWD car, go reverse - you'll gain more traction on the front wheels that
> way.
Yes, absolutely. In fact, I did get to do this a couple years ago -
started down a hill that was covered in ice, and after watching a car
come over and slam into a parked car and then the stop sign on the
opposite corner, I opted to back up and find another way down. Reverse
worked very well for that.
>> The important thing when driving on ice is to not make any sudden
>> changes - sudden turns, slamming on the brakes, fast acceleration - all
>> of these can cause a loss of control.
>
> True. It's also a good habit to find a large field oslt to test out
> these things. The better you'll feel the road and know the car, the
> better your instincts will perform before you can think what's even
> happening - therefore the better are your chances to survive ;).
Yes, agreed - the more you can practice in a safe environment, the better
prepared you'll be. :-)
Jim
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On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 12:00:33 +0100, scott wrote:
>> Well, brakes tend to be "on or off", if you don't have ABS, pumping the
>> brake pedal generally works well, but also if you can drop to a lower
>> gear, do that.
>
> Watch out though when changing down (in a manual), you might lock the
> driven wheels if you let up the clutch too quickly, in a rear wheel
> drive car this can give you a good wake up call :-)
Oh, yes, absolutely. I have an automatic now, but I learned on a
stick....and that does change the tactics.
>
>> I also will occasionally tap the brakes to see if the car will slow
>> down.
>
> Yep this is good advice, when it's safe to do so then *try out* how much
> grip you actually have, this will avoid a big surprise later up the road
> when you really do need to stop or turn quickly.
Yup.
Jim
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On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 18:55:20 +0200, Eero Ahonen wrote:
> scott wrote:
>>
>> Any wild movements are never good, even on wet or dry roads :-)
>>
>>
> But still they can be so fun! Oh, I really need a new RWD-wintertoy
> after I sold my old Volvo...
>
> -Aero
LOL, ain't that the truth...They can be fun in controlled circumstances,
hell, even after I spun my Ford Escort out (my first time off-road in a
car not designed for it), after making sure I was OK and the car wasn't
damaged, I thought that it seemed kinda fun.
Jim
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>> Any wild movements are never good, even on wet or dry roads :-)
>>
>
> But still they can be so fun!
Well of course if you are deliberately aiming for such things, I can never
resist blipping the accelerator on an empty snowy corner to get a bit of
sideways action :-D
If only I had the skill to do this with my car without crashing! (but not
the stupidity to do it while there's other traffic arround).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buZ5407L718
> Oh, I really need a new RWD-wintertoy
> after I sold my old Volvo...
Hehe I love mine, but first I always have to hold down some button for 5
seconds to really turn off all the driving aids (just pressing it only turns
them half off). Actually 99% of the time I have all the driving aids turned
on (that's the default), they really are quite impressive at keeping the car
going the direction you are pointing.
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