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Invisible wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> Invisible wrote:
>>> M$ has somehow succeeded in convincing people that it is somehow
>>> "normal" for computers to not work correctly.
>>
>> Not really. Personal computers never worked consistently right.
>> Mainframes, yes, but not micros or PCs. (And by PC, I mean everything
>> from TRS-80 to Apple ][ to Commodore PET to ...)
>
> Or rather, you mean "any computer that hasn't really worked right"? :-P
BTW, I'm not sure where Microsoft comes into this, except as being the first
popular OS that ran on hardware they didn't make themselves. When your PSU
is flakey and it makes your video card crash your video card driver with
spurious interrupts, somehow it's Microsoft that gets blamed.
As someone who drove college cars in college, it didn't take Microsoft to
convince me that if you have POS hardware, you're going to spend most
weekends underneath it fixing it. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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From: Eero Ahonen
Subject: Re: Ok, who didn't know, or at least guess this?
Date: 29 Jan 2009 13:08:46
Message: <4981f0ae$1@news.povray.org>
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nemesis wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez escreveu:
>>
>> As someone who runs Linux on his desktop... I agree.
I might second this, but I have no idea where KDE and Gnome are going
right now.
>
> BTW, both latest Gnome and KDE 4 are pure finesse when compared to the
> geeky desktop environments I had to cope with in the old days. Anyone
> remembers when Gnome used to come with Lispy Sawfish and Xeyes? ;)
Both KDE and Gnome have always (when I've tested them, haven't for a
while now) been awful compared to light, fast, capable and geeky
Afterstep. They are just too Explorer -like with start-bars etc (which
is probably a good thing from a basic user's eye)
> They also hold up quite well when compared to Vista. Aqua is another
> level, though...
Aqua is the one that OSX uses, right? It's still pretty far narrowed
down to Apple hardware and the short moments I've had with it haven't
been extra pleasant, but it could be good when you get used to it (I
just don't know, the first contacts just haven't been wonderous).
-Aero
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From: Eero Ahonen
Subject: Re: Ok, who didn't know, or at least guess this?
Date: 29 Jan 2009 13:28:04
Message: <4981f534$1@news.povray.org>
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nemesis wrote:
>
> FlashBlock?! My sister won't even touch Firefox! Anytime I'm at my
> parent's and leave the computer for others to use -- it's a single
> Windows passwordless session (because it's "easy") -- I leave Firefox
> open with a clean new tab. First thing she does is close Firefox and
> click on the old blue e. It's like dog conditioning, I guess, because
> she seems to not even realize it's a web browser sitting just before her...
Have you ever tried, what happens if you change the Big ol' E to start
Firefox? :)
-Aero
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From: Patrick Elliott
Subject: Re: Ok, who didn't know, or at least guess this?
Date: 29 Jan 2009 13:44:58
Message: <4981f92a$1@news.povray.org>
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Darren New wrote:
> The list of new things they've done recently is widely available, so I
> won't bother going thru it.
>
Seen the lists, seen the rebuttals. Still not impressed. Especially when
some of them are things like "Added a mess of new features to DirectX",
which would be available without it, except that they insisted you "had
to" make them only work in DirectX. A lot of the time, the problem with
OpenGL isn't that it "can't" do something, its that the hardware doesn't
let it use those features. The other issue is a correlary, "If you can't
use those features, it takes longer to replicate them the hard way, than
if it could just "use" them in the first place.
And again. I have "never" seen any case, personally, where someone said,
"Ooh! MS is doing that with their OS? Better put it in Linux!" Not
unless it is something in the class of user interfaces, and those tend
to be used to "hide" things you don't want people mucking with, as much
as making it easier to use. Its.. taking a 1940's engine, slapping a
2009 body on it, applying a fancy new kind of paint, then saying, "Look,
look! Isn't the new version great, compared to that ugly hack over
their?", while the people you are pointing at have a brand spanking new
turbo charged, fuel efficient, bio-diesel, electronic fuel injected,
monster, sitting in a basic frame and a cheap plastic shell. Only...
That is rapidly changing, and one side still has the better "engine", no
matter how many gadgets the other one glues onto theirs, without
fundamentally changing it.
Windows borrows, Linux evolves. The only time it ever seems to work the
other way around is when MS decides that Windows needs to poison the
well, and Linux has to adapt by developing resistance to the poison,
like all the attempts made over the years by MS to "obfuscate"
protocols, with the clear, and often within internal documents, intent,
of sabotaging compatibility.
The problem isn't Windows per-say. Its the entire philosophy behind it,
and the compromises made to a) rush it out the door all the time, or b)
undermine others, just to get a slight edge over everyone else. Its
better to work towards a fully usable solution, not keep tacking on half
assed ones, the way they end up doing it, from their "new" security
model, which just causes people like me, who "despise" storing data on
the same partition as the OS, to pull our hair out, to defraggers that
still, to this day, don't have the common sense to defrag the "unused"
space, or optimize program access (never mind all the third parties that
figured that one out as far back as Win3.11), to.. an endless list.
FOSS has an excuse for this, they don't have thousands of developers
working 24/7 on *one* project, trying to make it bloody work right.
MS... doesn't. Their goal is just to make things look impressive, and do
enough to sell the product. Its not until it becomes obvious that they
have problems, or someone else is biting their ankles, or something
never did work, and enough people are annoyed, that they even "attempt"
to fix it.
--
void main () {
If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
if version = "Vista" {
call slow_by_half();
call DRM_everything();
}
call functional_code();
}
else
call crash_windows();
}
<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models,
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>
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From: Eero Ahonen
Subject: Re: Ok, who didn't know, or at least guess this?
Date: 29 Jan 2009 13:58:38
Message: <4981fc5e@news.povray.org>
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Darren New wrote:
>
> I see Linux copying a lot of stuff that MS does on Linux file systems,
> for example. When Linux adds something like the ability to watch for
> changes to the file system or the ability to take a snapshot of the file
> system without disrupting operations, I don't see too many people
> complaining "Hey, doesn't Microsoft do that already?"
Is there such thing from MS? I know that (at least some) storage systems
can do that and VMWare ESX can do that, but is there implementation from
MS (possibly with HyperV?)?
> But if Microsoft
> adds virtual desktops, I can guarantee people will croon that's been in
> Linux for years.
I'll shout "Finally" rather than croon. One thing I've been missing on
Windows since the 90's.
-Aero
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From: Eero Ahonen
Subject: Re: Ok, who didn't know, or at least guess this?
Date: 29 Jan 2009 14:31:34
Message: <49820416$1@news.povray.org>
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Patrick Elliott wrote:
>
> MS... doesn't. Their goal is just to make things look impressive, and do
> enough to sell the product. Its not until it becomes obvious that they
>
Part of this has been disgussed here before - MS lives by selling
software (and hardware) and most of computer users don't have a clue of
what's happening under the bonnet, so they have to do (also) visual
changes (which aren't always improvements) to make people see a
difference to older system. Hence one goal automatically is to make
things look impressive.
-Aero
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From: Orchid XP v8
Subject: Re: Ok, who didn't know, or at least guess this?
Date: 29 Jan 2009 15:38:54
Message: <498213de$1@news.povray.org>
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Darren New wrote:
> BTW, I'm not sure where Microsoft comes into this, except as being the
> first popular OS that ran on hardware they didn't make themselves. When
> your PSU is flakey and it makes your video card crash your video card
> driver with spurious interrupts, somehow it's Microsoft that gets blamed.
>
> As someone who drove college cars in college, it didn't take Microsoft
> to convince me that if you have POS hardware, you're going to spend most
> weekends underneath it fixing it. :-)
Yeah, that's right. Because a faulty power supply *completely explains*
why Word crashes when you open certain documents. Oh, wait... actually
it doesn't. :-P
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Yeah, that's right. Because a faulty power supply *completely explains*
> why Word crashes when you open certain documents. Oh, wait... actually
> it doesn't. :-P
I didn't say that.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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Patrick Elliott wrote:
> And again. I have "never" seen any case, personally, where someone said,
> "Ooh! MS is doing that with their OS? Better put it in Linux!"
No, but I've seen things added to Linux that were available a while ago on
Windows. Of course the Linux people didn't go "had to have that," at least
not out loud, any more than features MS "steals" from Linux are advertised
that way.
> Windows borrows, Linux evolves.
Yeah, OK. Whatever.
> which just causes people like me, who "despise" storing data on
> the same partition as the OS, to pull our hair out,
I had no problem moving my home directory to a different partition.
> to defraggers that
> still, to this day, don't have the common sense to defrag the "unused"
> space,
Sure they do. Have for ages.
> or optimize program access (never mind all the third parties that
> figured that one out as far back as Win3.11), to.. an endless list.
They do that too, and have for ages.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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Eero Ahonen wrote:
> Is there such thing from MS?
What, watching for changes without polling? There have been multiple ways
to do that sort of thing for years and years. I think Win95 had it, and more
recently with NTFS you have the USN journal, so your program doesn't even
need to be running to watch for changes.
> I'll shout "Finally" rather than croon. One thing I've been missing on
> Windows since the 90's.
Well, there's a bunch of add-on packages that do a decent job of it.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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