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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> I guess I just *assumed* that a safety-critical feature like "don't
>>> burn down my house" would be hard-wired into the device.
>>
>> I don't think CPU temperature is safety critical. The CPU basically
>> burns out before the heat gets high enough to set anything outside the
>> case on fire.
>
> Well, perhaps. But CPU temperature is *utterly* critical to being able
> to continue using your laptop. If it gets hot enough, the CPU will burn
> out, and then your laptop is a very expensive paper weight. (!)
Yep. But that's not safety critical. :-) Indeed, that's exactly why it
*isn't* safety critical. Unlike say batteries blowing up, which *are*
safety critical and which therefore have hardware in the charger to keep
from blowing them up.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
There aren't any trees on Mars.
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>
> Well, perhaps. But CPU temperature is *utterly* critical to being able
> to continue using your laptop. If it gets hot enough, the CPU will burn
> out, and then your laptop is a very expensive paper weight. (!)
Then they can sell you a new one (naturally you'll buy the same brand as
the one that melted, won't you?).
-Aero
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> What confuses me is I can turn on a hard drive that has no activity on it,
> and it'll sit there making little chuckling noises, seeking around and
> such. Like, even a USB drive not plugged into a USB cable will click and
> seek and such. I'm assuming the firmware is testing the drive or
> something, looking for sectors to spare out, but it' kind of weird.
Probably some sort of continuous calibration system to account for
temperature changes etc, I guess the head movement mechanisms need to be
controlled pretty accurately!
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> Well, perhaps. But CPU temperature is *utterly* critical to being able to
> continue using your laptop. If it gets hot enough, the CPU will burn out,
> and then your laptop is a very expensive paper weight. (!)
Can this actually happen though, or does the CPU just shut down before it
knows it is going to melt?
When I built my sister's PC the heat sink clip had snapped without me
knowing, so the heat sink was hanging off one side. Every time I tried to
install Windows it just turned off after about 20 seconds. It wasn't until
I took the case off that I realised the problem.
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scott wrote:
>> What confuses me is I can turn on a hard drive that has no activity on
>> it, and it'll sit there making little chuckling noises, seeking around
>> and such. Like, even a USB drive not plugged into a USB cable will
>> click and seek and such. I'm assuming the firmware is testing the
>> drive or something, looking for sectors to spare out, but it' kind of
>> weird.
>
> Probably some sort of continuous calibration system to account for
> temperature changes etc, I guess the head movement mechanisms need to be
> controlled pretty accurately!
Yeah, I always thought the sounds a HD makes when turned on was just the
drive mechanism trying to find track 0 or something like that.
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Eero Ahonen wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>> Well, perhaps. But CPU temperature is *utterly* critical to being able
>> to continue using your laptop. If it gets hot enough, the CPU will burn
>> out, and then your laptop is a very expensive paper weight. (!)
>
> Then they can sell you a new one (naturally you'll buy the same brand as
> the one that melted, won't you?).
Yes, I *will* buy the same CPU brand as the melted one. You know why?
The rival brand uses a different socket. :-P
OTOH, it would probably be both *cheaper* and more beneficial to just
buy an entire new laptop! ;-)
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scott wrote:
>> Well, perhaps. But CPU temperature is *utterly* critical to being able
>> to continue using your laptop. If it gets hot enough, the CPU will
>> burn out, and then your laptop is a very expensive paper weight. (!)
>
> Can this actually happen though, or does the CPU just shut down before
> it knows it is going to melt?
I am unsure. One would hope that powering down the system if a
hard-limit temperature is reached *is* in hardware rather than software.
OTOH, here we have a laptop which got sufficiently hot for the CPU to
malfunction fairly seriously, yet still the power remains on.
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> I am unsure. One would hope that powering down the system if a hard-limit
> temperature is reached *is* in hardware rather than software. OTOH, here
> we have a laptop which got sufficiently hot for the CPU to malfunction
> fairly seriously, yet still the power remains on.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/hot-spot,365.html
It's quite old, but the basic outcome seems to be that the Intel CPUs are
impossible to damage by overheating. With the AMD chip it relies on the
motherboard, but their demo shows that a motherboard temperature sensor
cannot react quickly enough to avoid frying the CPU when the HS comes off.
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scott wrote:
> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/hot-spot,365.html
>
> It's quite old, but the basic outcome seems to be that the Intel CPUs
> are impossible to damage by overheating. With the AMD chip it relies on
> the motherboard, but their demo shows that a motherboard temperature
> sensor cannot react quickly enough to avoid frying the CPU when the HS
> comes off.
Oh wow... 370°C after 1 second? That's pretty special!
Looking at this, it seems that in "the old days" some CPUs didn't have
any temperature sensors at all. I would imagine given the *huge* amounts
of heat that newer CPUs generate, this must have changed by now.
I still don't know whether the fan speed is hardware or software
controlled, but I would think by now the system will at least turn
itself off in a thermal emergency without software intervention.
As an aside... How much heat does the human brain generate? (By every
estimate I've seen, it has vastly superior theoretical computational
power compared to any supercomputer yet built by man.) How come human
brains don't ignite and burn during normal operation? I don't see any
really large heat sinks on a human...
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On Fri, 09 Jan 2009 10:04:54 +0000, Invisible <voi### [at] dev null> wrote:
> How come human
>brains don't ignite and burn during normal operation? I don't see any
>really large heat sinks on a human...
It is fluid cooled and what about those heatsinks on the side of your head?
--
Regards
Stephen
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