Forgot to say:
The Big Bang is to The universe as Love is to our spirituality.

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Corrections:
> and lived un-judged a "good life" would have their punishment.

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Saul Luizaga wrote:
> Recently, creationists have claimed that they have found a proof of 
> creation:

If they have, they're wrong. If nothing else, one piece of evidence does not 
make for "proof", especially if one also claims evolution is "only a theory."

> something to do with a radiation emitted by certain atoms on 
> peace of matter, 

Someone found evidence of radioactive decay of short-life radioactive atoms 
embedded as a physical mark (a ring, to be exact) inside crystals of stone 
that are normally thought to take much longer to solidify than it takes the 
radioactive particles to decay.

The creationist interpretation was "god put them all there at the same 
time", conveniently ignoring the evidence of the Big Bang on which many of 
them also rest arguments for the existence of God.

Other physicists and geologists look at that and go "Huh, that's 
interesting. Someone ought to look further."  Creationists claim success in 
forming a global theory of the existence of the universe based on lack of 
theory to explain one piece of evidence, as usual.

> I was very sleepy at the time of seen this on a sleepless night.

You didn't miss much.

> So, that "proof" as any other theory is only that.

Don't confuse "proof" and "evidence". "Evidence" doesn't lead to "proof" 
without other supporting evidence, which is what science actually provides.

(Note the lack of comment on your beliefs. This comment is about science, 
not belief. :-)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
   There aren't any trees on Mars.

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Darren New wrote:
> (Note the lack of comment on your beliefs. This comment is about 
> science, not belief. :-)
> 
Hmm. Good call, given that I couldn't make much coherent out of it. It 
is, as honest scientists would tell you, basically meaningless. If you 
can't detect it, detect how it reacts with the world, or even if it 
does, and your hypothesis about its attributes does nothing to generate 
testable question, which "might" give a clearer view of the world, its 
no more useful to postulate god = love, than it is to postulate an 
undetectable tea pot in orbit of Pluto. A list of assertions is just 
that, a list of assertions. The problem isn't that people believe these 
things, or assert them in describing their beliefs, but that they quite 
often think that they should "replace" science. The left and right have 
similar groups of people in that respect, though, while for the right 
its assertions about gods, for the left its become assertion of a wacky 
mix of new age gibberish and altie medicine, on which the "same" basic 
argument gets made, "Scientists are all a huge conspiracy to deny the 
'spiritual' stuff in the world (which doesn't, from hundreds of years of 
evidence, actually work, or is, in the worst cases, a total con game) 
and replace it with a purely 'materialistic' view, which denies 
everything from magic healing crystals, to Exstenze male enhancement 
pills, to the divinity of Jesus (if your one of the people on the other 
end of the spectrum). That, as one doctor put it, any "alternative" to 
medicine, if it actually worked, would be called "medicine", doesn't 
faze such people any more than the other end of the woo line is 
disturbed by their total lack of any ability to show that prayer 
actually effects the recovery of "anyone" in a hospital (or, in the 
funniest case where one of their unthink-tanks ran a study, actually 
killed more people).

-- 
void main () {
   If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

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I think people like you are voluntarily blind to spirituality and make 
sure to stay this way, hence any belief in God is just non-sense from 
"wacky people". I wonder what kind of fear(s) relies in this denial 
behavior... comfortableness of a materialistic world? who knows, but I 
think you are wasting your time analyzing religion/spiritual related 
matters when you have an aperture to it of any kind, because everything 
would be just non-sense anyway.

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On 13-Jan-09 18:58, Saul Luizaga wrote:
> I think people like you are voluntarily blind to spirituality 

I can only speak, but I know that I have had experiences that I am sure 
would have been called spiritual by others. I have had that moment, like 
probably many others, when for the first time and in an just instant 
totally understood how mind boggling big the universe is. My favorite 
one, however, is the one I had in class the subject was general 
relativity and basically our teacher let us 'discover' that light is a 
property of any geometry with 3 space and a time dimension. I don't 
think I can relate to you in any way how you feel when you suddenly and 
completely realizes that of the famous opening of the bible*:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of 
the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.

statement three is totally superfluous.
I am assuming that you don't know what I mean because most religious an 
'spiritual' people tend to stare you blank in the face if you tell them 
how much of a spiritual experience maths can be and give this example. 
And then they don't even know that on the board were only some matrices 
and a 4 dimensional generalization of the maxwell equations with those 
cute square operators. My wife says she understands.

In  short, even atheists can be very spiritual or religious or whatever 
you want to call that. We just experience the feelings in another 
environment.

Just to give another famous example of what I might mean: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSZNsIFID28

> and make sure to stay this way, hence any belief in God is just 
> non-sense from "wacky people". 

I wouldn't say wacky, 'misled' would suffice ;)

> I wonder what kind of fear(s) relies in this denial 
> behavior... comfortableness of a materialistic world? 

Not everybody appreciates this kind of pseudo-psychology. I know I don't.

> who knows, but I 
> think you are wasting your time analyzing religion/spiritual related 
> matters when you have an aperture to it of any kind, because everything 
> would be just non-sense anyway.

I think you'll find that there are a lot of 'atheists' that have studied 
the bible and other holy books in more detail than your average 
minister. They won't consider that a waste of time themselves.

------
*) suppressing the urge to quote not the new international version but 
the lolcat translation, because this is a serious matter.

1 Oh hai. In teh beginnin Ceiling Cat maded teh skiez An da Urfs, but he 
did not eated dem.
2 Da Urfs no had shapez An haded dark face, An Ceiling Cat rode 
invisible bike over teh waterz.
3 At start, no has lyte. An Ceiling Cat sayz, i can haz lite? An lite wuz.

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Saul Luizaga wrote:
> voluntarily blind to spirituality 

I double-ice-cream-dare you to watch these without a sense of awe. (Except 
for the brief excerpt of the Numa Numa guy in the middle, of course.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcBV-cXVWFw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvNhw888XmM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3fOXt4MrOM

I pity those who need a God to provide their spirituality, sense of beauty, 
or their knowledge of good and evil.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
   There aren't any trees on Mars.

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On 13-Jan-09 22:04, Darren New wrote:
> Saul Luizaga wrote:
>> voluntarily blind to spirituality 
> 
> I double-ice-cream-dare you to watch these without a sense of awe. 
> (Except for the brief excerpt of the Numa Numa guy in the middle, of 
> course.
WTH?? Who ordered mthat?
> )
>

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> I pity those who need a God to provide their spirituality, sense of beauty, 
> or their knowledge of good and evil.

  You know, you are rather good at trolling. Pro level. :P

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On 13-Jan-09 22:21, Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> I pity those who need a God to provide their spirituality, sense of beauty, 
>> or their knowledge of good and evil.
> 
>   You know, you are rather good at trolling. Pro level. :P
> 
I think that sentence was fully justified by the tone of the post of 
Saul. Perhaps you missed that tone because you happen to agree with Saul 
but not with Darren.

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