Invisible wrote:
> Well then if the TOS says "you cannot use protocol X", you go find a
> different ISP.

They don't say that.

All ISPs say "you can't pirate stuff over our networks" (duh).
Some ISPs say "we may block stuff if we think it's good for the network"
(and it is; the BitTorrent protocol is a significant percentage of many
ISPs' traffic, so blocking it would "help the network")

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Darren New wrote:
>>     Not in the US. If your protests indeed disrupt the government, or
>> traffic, or so many other things, you get in trouble.
> 
> The protests are supposed to disrupt the government. It's *supposed* to
> be OK, as long as it's peaceful.

	Well, exactly how can they "disrupt the government" while being "peaceful"?

	You're suggesting that if they could find a way to prevent Congress
from going into session peacefully and indefinitely, then it'll be OK?

-- 
Psychoceramics: The study of crackpots.


                    /\  /\               /\  /
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                       >>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
                                   anl

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Darren New wrote:
> Unfortunately, choice is rather limited in most places, due to
> government interference.

	Could you elaborate? In a few isolated places in the US, the choice is
limited because the companies sued whenever the government tried
providing free Internet...

-- 
Psychoceramics: The study of crackpots.


                    /\  /\               /\  /
                   /  \/  \ u e e n     /  \/  a w a z
                       >>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
                                   anl

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Invisible wrote:
> Well then if the TOS says "you cannot use protocol X", you go find a
> different ISP.

	Which has the same clause in their TOS.


-- 
Psychoceramics: The study of crackpots.


                    /\  /\               /\  /
                   /  \/  \ u e e n     /  \/  a w a z
                       >>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
                                   anl

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Mueen Nawaz wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>>>     Not in the US. If your protests indeed disrupt the government, or
>>> traffic, or so many other things, you get in trouble.
>> The protests are supposed to disrupt the government. It's *supposed* to
>> be OK, as long as it's peaceful.
> 
> 	Well, exactly how can they "disrupt the government" while being "peaceful"?

Well, OK.  You can certainly disrupt government plans without disrupting 
the government as such. That's kind of the wonders of democracy.

Sure, if you actually prevent the government from governing, you're 
breaking the law.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> Or being a soldier.
> 
> "Legal" doesn't mean "good", but ok...

I wasn't saying whether it was legal *or* good, but only why "guns were 
made".  Most cops go their entire careers without having to shoot 
anyone, let alone kill them.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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Mueen Nawaz wrote:
> 	Could you elaborate? 

Each community selects a provider for cable and for local phone service. 
Just like you don't really get a choice of provider for water or 
electricity, if you don't like your cable TV provider, you're pretty 
well screwed in most areas.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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Mueen Nawaz wrote:
> limited because the companies sued whenever the government tried
> providing free Internet...

Oh, and yes, the government isn't supposed to do that sort of thing. :-) 
I can understand why the private companies sued.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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>  And we are not talking about lying and deceiving. We are talking about
> *expressing your opinion*, which is a rather different thing.

Like I said, fine so long as you don't cause any trouble with it (ie 
blocking a road with a protest while you express your opinon loudly, or 
persuading others to do some terrorist act, or damaging the image of some 
other person or company for no reason, there are lots of reasons).

>  A Finnish person posted an article in his blog citing, among other 
> things,
> official crime statistics performed by certain groups of people and using
> words which some people consider derogatory

Publishing derogatory comments, especially when generalising about a certain 
group of people is a very dangerous thing to do, and certainly not what most 
people would call "without causing trouble".

If that's the worst (or best?) you can come up with, I think we're safe with 
being free to express our opinions :-)

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>> Not in the US. If your protests indeed disrupt the government, or
>> traffic, or so many other things, you get in trouble.
>
> The protests are supposed to disrupt the government. It's *supposed* to be 
> OK, as long as it's peaceful.
>
> Disrupting traffic gets you in trouble for disrupting traffic, not for 
> protesting.
>
> Unfortunately, I think a great number of on-the-street level cops are 
> taking their clues from the high administrations and simply ignoring the 
> law and misusing their privileges.

I saw a thing here a while back where a group of people were protesting 
about something.  There were literally twice as many police with shields and 
guns compared to the protesters (who were armed with nothing).  The police 
were just waiting at a safe distance when suddenly the protesters started 
destroying peoples gardens and ripping out fences and trees to throw at the 
police.  The police did nothing, they just stood there.  Afterwards they 
showed the state of these peoples gardens and interviewed them, basically 
they couldn't believe it that the police did absolutely nothing to protect 
their property.

If that is "free speech" and "freedom to express your opinion", then I want 
it banned!

Mind you, the German police seem to take a very strong stance against anyone 
who tries to protest violently against those nuclear waste trains.  Someone 
has chained or cemented themselves to the train tracks, no problem, where's 
the angle grinder? ;-)

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