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On 14-Nov-08 11:10, Invisible wrote:
>>> ...so, rather like real Oracle backups then.
>>>
>>> Presumably the guy did a little researching on Oracle and found *a*
>>> way to make a copy of the data, and that's what we're using.
>>>
>>> Using a logical backup rather than a physical backup does take up
>>> less disk space. However, it takes more time to backup and restore
>>> (and these operations are logged transactions, and triggers can fire,
>>> etc.) Myself I'd prefer a real physical backup...
>>>
>> How much diskspace are we talking about? Remember current price is
>
> I have no idea how large their database is. I only know how big my one is.
yes, you have a ten pence database. ;) Tell that to your boss and see
how happy that'll make him
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>> I have no idea how large their database is. I only know how big my one
>> is.
> yes, you have a ten pence database. ;) Tell that to your boss and see
> how happy that'll make him
Oh, he won't care.
1. I'm in an inferior country, so I don't count.
2. My database is due to be decommissioned shortly.
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Chambers wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Orchid XP v8 [mailto:voi### [at] dev null]
>> ago...
>
> You* shouldn't be allowed to purchase computer equipment without first
> checking here:
> http://www.pricewatch.com/
Maplin isn't the cheapest place on earth, but they provide actual
customer service. It's worth a few percent more for that.
(They're also a real-world shop, so you can walk in, purchase something,
and have it in your hand the same day, rather than waiting 3 days for it
to be delivered and then waiting until the weekend so you can go to the
post office to collect the item during their brief opening hours...)
> On the page for 1 TB hdds:
> http://www2.pricewatch.com/hard_removable_drives/sata_1tb.htm
>
> 3 of the top 5 state in their summary that international orders are OK,
> so shipping to you shouldn't be a problem. The other two might still do
> it, they just don't state it.
Hmm. I wonder if that's changed significantly since March...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Darren New wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
>> Seems like it's the same amount of work to me, whether the kernel does
>> it or the application does it.
>
> First, you've eliminated all the overhead of two kernel calls per file,
> which is something like 30% of a typical process' costs of execution.
...are you serious??! o_O
You're telling me an I/O-bound process is slowed down by the mere act of
changing CPU mode? I thought that stuff was more or less instant!
>>> To be fair, NTFS and other tree-based directory systems have to
>>> rework the tree when you delete the files, so this too will be disk
>>> I/O overhead.
>>
>> Um... you don't cache directory blocks, no? (Especially given that
>> they're usually non-contiguous and so take a lot of thrashing to
>> access, and there often heavily accessed.)
>
> Sure. When your directory is bigger than your RAM, that doesn't help a
> whole lot.
Well, true, but a directory entry is about 12 bytes, so you'd need to be
deleting several *thousand million* files, not just 3,000.
>> $500 seems like a hell of a lot of money to me...
>
> Not for a business.
Well, no... not if it's for something important anyway.
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Darren New wrote:
> Have you seen some of the japanese and korean cell phones? Apparently,
> personal computers aren't real big over there.
I don't know if this is actually true, but I'm told that *everything* is
quite small in Japan. Including the people...
(I hear claims of the opposite for the USA - but I'm pretty sure they're
exaggerating.)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> You're telling me an I/O-bound process is slowed down by the mere act of
> changing CPU mode? I thought that stuff was more or less instant!
No. When you add up all the cache misses, the TLB flushing, the
privilege mode changes, the checking of addresses, and all that, it
comes out to about 30% of the CPU compute-power being spent on that,
compared to running on bare metal with all that turned off. And you're
still talking O(N^2) instead of O(N) behavior.
> Well, true, but a directory entry is about 12 bytes,
It wasn't even 12 bytes back in unix v7 of CP/M. :-) With more modern
file systems, the files are hashed or sorted into the directories.
> so you'd need to be
> deleting several *thousand million* files, not just 3,000.
Uh huh. Takes about 2 hours on the machine I have at work to delete two
months of audio chopped into 20-second chunks. :-)
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
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Darren New wrote:
> Uh huh. Takes about 2 hours on the machine I have at work to delete two
> months of audio chopped into 20-second chunks. :-)
Huh?? You're clearly using the wrong filesystem!
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Invisible wrote:
> Yeah, well... I only want it so I can make telephone calls. I already
> *have* a real camera and a real music player. :-P
I use my cellphone to send about 6 SMS messages a week. That's all the use I
give it, why would I want a fancy phone?
I have a cheap GSM phone because my provider "forced" me to. Otherwise I'd
still be on CDMA.
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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> Uh huh. Takes about 2 hours on the machine I have at work to delete two
>> months of audio chopped into 20-second chunks. :-)
>
> Huh?? You're clearly using the wrong filesystem!
I said that, yes.
"""
I think on Linux it was just a combination of me picking a file system
not really optimized for bunches of little files, combined with a
journaling mode that's designed for utter safety rather than efficiency,
combined with a software RAID. I probably could have improved it a bunch
if I had an incentive to learn my options before installing things.
"""
You understand I'm talking about quarter million 1.7-meg files, yes?
That's 2000+ deletes a minute (36/second) on an IDE drive with RAID
going on.
Yes, I'm using the wrong file system, but it's not *too* shabby.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Orchid XP v8 [mailto:voi### [at] devnull]
>
> Maplin isn't the cheapest place on earth, but they provide actual
> customer service. It's worth a few percent more for that.
I'm not saying you *have* to shop online, just that you should check
prices first.
> and have it in your hand the same day, rather than waiting 3 days for
> it
> to be delivered and then waiting until the weekend so you can go to
the
> post office to collect the item during their brief opening hours...)
Your post office doesn't deliver to your house?!?!?
> Hmm. I wonder if that's changed significantly since March...
Probably, I check the prices when I posted yesterday (November).
...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com
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