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http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2008/10/sex-symbols.html
--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.freesitespace.net
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Tim Cook <z99### [at] gmail com> wrote:
> http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2008/10/sex-symbols.html
In Finnish it's much easier because there are no gender-specific pronouns,
period.
(Curiously, I have never read or heard any theory about why this is the
case in Finnish, even though most other languages do have gender-specific
pronouns, and more over often lack a neutral third-person pronoun.)
--
- Warp
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"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message
news:491404cc@news.povray.org...
> Tim Cook <z99### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2008/10/sex-symbols.html
>
> In Finnish it's much easier because there are no gender-specific
pronouns,
> period.
>
> (Curiously, I have never read or heard any theory about why this is the
> case in Finnish, even though most other languages do have gender-specific
> pronouns, and more over often lack a neutral third-person pronoun.)
AFAIK, Uralic (& Altaic) languages in general lack gender (besides having
agglutination and vowel harmony and some other common or similar
properties). Beyond that, it's impossible to say why or why not - any such
reason, of course, could not have been recorded.
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"Tim Cook" <z99### [at] gmailcom> wrote in message
news:4913a793@news.povray.org...
> http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2008/10/sex-symbols.html
>
I remember learning the "When in doubt, use 'he'" concept in school. It
always bothered me, because no one (that I knew) actually spoke that way,
and most people to this day do not speak or write that way. Nevertheless,
it was considered grammatically correct.
As a result, most of us still refuse to do that, and to avoid saying "they"
when it's not grammatically correct, we might say something like "he/she"
or, in computer manuals, "the user". Once in awhile, you might hear someone
say "one" (as the French do), but it's not very common. I didn't know this
whole story, but I find it interesting.
A good child should wash his hands.
A good child should wash their hands.
A good child should wash his or her hands.
A good boy or girl should wash his hands.
A good boy or girl should wash their hands.
A good boy or girl should wash his or her hands.
Interesting... I have to say that I'd prefer the second choice, except to
avoid sounding grammatically incorrect. Stupid linguists.... ;-)
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"Jeremy \"UncleHoot\" Praay" <jer### [at] questsoftwarecmo> wrote:
> As a result, most of us still refuse to do that, and to avoid saying "they"
> when it's not grammatically correct, we might say something like "he/she"
> or, in computer manuals, "the user".
Whenever I see expressions like "he/she", "he or she", etc. it always
looks like a politically correct hypercorrectism which breaks the fluency
of the sentence and makes it sound artificial and awkward. It can become
really annoying if the pronoun appears many times in a sentence.
"They" just is not much more helpful in most sentences because it breaks
the singular/plural congruency of the sentence.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> (Curiously, I have never read or heard any theory about why this is the
> case in Finnish, even though most other languages do have gender-specific
> pronouns, and more over often lack a neutral third-person pronoun.)
It's not that rare. Turkish doesn't (which, I believe, is also Altaic).
There was another language - can't remember which.
--
Inoculatte: To take coffee intravenously when you are running late.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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Warp a écrit :
> "Jeremy \"UncleHoot\" Praay" <jer### [at] questsoftwarecmo> wrote:
>> As a result, most of us still refuse to do that, and to avoid saying "they"
>> when it's not grammatically correct, we might say something like "he/she"
>> or, in computer manuals, "the user".
>
> Whenever I see expressions like "he/she", "he or she", etc. it always
> looks like a politically correct hypercorrectism which breaks the fluency
> of the sentence and makes it sound artificial and awkward. It can become
> really annoying if the pronoun appears many times in a sentence.
Not to mention that you still have to choose the order of the pronouns,
which I'm sure will be interpreted as sexism in a few years time ;-)
--
Vincent
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Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay wrote:
> As a result, most of us still refuse to do that, and to avoid saying "they"
> when it's not grammatically correct, we might say something like "he/she"
> or, in computer manuals, "the user". Once in awhile, you might hear someone
> say "one" (as the French do), but it's not very common. I didn't know this
> whole story, but I find it interesting.
>
> A good child should wash his hands.
> A good child should wash their hands.
> A good child should wash his or her hands.
I'm not sure using "one" in the above cases is correct. Usually you use
"one" as:
One should wash one's hands.
When I was taught all this, I was told using either is fine, as long as
you don't mix them up within the same context. So if you're writing
about a generic developer, you could just refer to the developer as a he
or as a she.
Saying he/she is also "correct", but it gets clumsy if you have to keep
doing it within a paragraph.
I do all of the above.
--
Inoculatte: To take coffee intravenously when you are running late.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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Warp wrote:
> Whenever I see expressions like "he/she", "he or she", etc. it always
> looks like a politically correct hypercorrectism which breaks the fluency
> of the sentence and makes it sound artificial and awkward. It can become
> really annoying if the pronoun appears many times in a sentence.
It'd all be easier if English had a gender neutral pronoun for humans.
That's the best solution.
He/she doesn't seem "unusual" to me - I think I grew up with it. But
you're right - it's a pain to repeatedly type and a pain to read as well.
I like how some people just do (s)he. That way you can read it any way
you want.
--
Inoculatte: To take coffee intravenously when you are running late.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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Warp wrote:
> In Finnish it's much easier because there are no gender-specific pronouns,
> period.
My understanding (from a once-thru read of "teach yourself Swahili") is
that language doesn't have gender-specific pronouns. But it does have
different pronouns for things that are alive, things that are dead, and
things that aren't alive but aren't dead either.
Alive would be people, animals, etc.
Dead would be rocks.
Neither apparently includes rivers, knives, and trees.
Pretty unusual to this speaker of english. :-)
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
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