>> BTW you should get a tripod :-)
>
> I'm seriously considering that.

They're very useful, and for static indoor use you can get some pretty cheap 
light-weight ones that will do the job well.  If you plan to get more 
serious and actually rotate the camera while it's on the tripod then you 
probably will want a heavier tripod with a smoother head (cheap ones are 
notoriously jerky when trying to rotate the camera in a smooth motion).

> And also bringing a decent friggin microphone to the next session! >_<

Hehe, sounds like that could get expensive :-)  For a start, where to place 
the microphoneS?

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Invisible wrote:

> Peddle division:
>   Bordon 16'
> 
> Great division:
>   Open Diapason 8'
>   Stopped Diapason 8'
>   Dulciana 8' (incomplete rank)
>   Principal 4'
>   Flute 4' (incomplete rank)
>   Fifteenth 2'
> 
> Swell division (enclosed):
>   Double Diapason 16' (incomplete rank)
>   Horn Diapason 8' (incomplete rank)
>   Lieblich Gedact 8'
>   Principal 4'
>   Full Mixture III
>   Cornopean 8'
>   Tremelo (sic.)
> 
> Couplers:
>   Swell to Peddle
>   Swell to Great
>   Great to Peddle

In summary, 1 Peddle stop, 6 Great stops, 6 Swell stops, and 4 other 
control knobs. A grand total of 13 actual stops.

The Grand Organ of the Royal Albert Hall has 36 stops *for the peddles*! o_O

The organ above has two 16' stops, one of which lacks the lowest notes 
of the scale. So there is basically only one C0 pipe at 16' pitch.

The Grand Organ has 16' stops. I count 15 of them for the Peddles alone, 
but all five of the organ's divisions contain at least one 16' stop. 
Several divisions also have 32' stops, and there's even a single 64' 
stop in the Peddle division. o_O

(The 64' stop actually uses sum and difference waves to generate the 
pitch, rather than a pipe that is actually 64' long. Apparently only two 
organs in the world have a "real" 64' stop.)

If any of you want to see the full readout for yourselves, it can be 
found here:

http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=D00733

Other interesting data on the restoration is here:

http://www.mander-organs.com/portfolio/r-a-h.html

And not forgetting that you'll want to look up all those stop names:

http://www.organstops.org/index.html

(Some of these have examples you can listen to!)

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scott wrote:
>>> BTW you should get a tripod :-)
>>
>> I'm seriously considering that.
> 
> They're very useful, and for static indoor use you can get some pretty 
> cheap light-weight ones that will do the job well.

Yeah. The church doesn't really have anything the right hight to rest 
the camera on. I just want something to hold it still.

Also, the camera seems to need to be a ridiculous distance away to get 
everything in the frame. Is this normal?

> If you plan to get 
> more serious and actually rotate the camera while it's on the tripod 
> then you probably will want a heavier tripod with a smoother head (cheap 
> ones are notoriously jerky when trying to rotate the camera in a smooth 
> motion).

Yeah, well... I don't care about that! ;-)

>> And also bringing a decent friggin microphone to the next session! >_<
> 
> Hehe, sounds like that could get expensive :-)  For a start, where to 
> place the microphoneS?

It's a PIPE ORGAN. I'll just put the mic on the floor at the other end 
of the building or something! ;-)

In seriousness... I understand loud, pure sinusiodal tones (e.g., flute) 
are notoriously difficult to record. (Or so my dad claims.)

Of course, the fun part is synchronising picture to sound...

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> Also, the camera seems to need to be a ridiculous distance away to get 
> everything in the frame. Is this normal?

My camera (it's an old Canon one with mini-DV tape) has a little screw-on 
lens adapter to give a wider field of view, without it you can't get much in 
the frame.

>> Hehe, sounds like that could get expensive :-)  For a start, where to 
>> place the microphoneS?
>
> It's a PIPE ORGAN. I'll just put the mic on the floor at the other end of 
> the building or something! ;-)
>
> In seriousness... I understand loud, pure sinusiodal tones (e.g., flute) 
> are notoriously difficult to record. (Or so my dad claims.)

I would imagine you would get quite a different recorded sound depending on 
where exactly you put the microphones, maybe find out if someone records any 
concerts in another local church and ask their advice?  As a first guess I 
would say the organ pipes were designed so that the usual audience in the 
church would hear the highest quality sound, so just sticking the 
microphones down there would likely be a good start.

> Of course, the fun part is synchronising picture to sound...

That's what clapperboards are for :-)

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scott wrote:
>> Also, the camera seems to need to be a ridiculous distance away to get 
>> everything in the frame. Is this normal?
> 
> My camera (it's an old Canon one with mini-DV tape) has a little 
> screw-on lens adapter to give a wider field of view, without it you 
> can't get much in the frame.

Yeah, well... my camera is clearly designed for portability, not quality.

>>> Hehe, sounds like that could get expensive :-)  For a start, where to 
>>> place the microphoneS?
>>
>> It's a PIPE ORGAN. I'll just put the mic on the floor at the other end 
>> of the building or something! ;-)
>>
>> In seriousness... I understand loud, pure sinusiodal tones (e.g., 
>> flute) are notoriously difficult to record. (Or so my dad claims.)
> 
> I would imagine you would get quite a different recorded sound depending 
> on where exactly you put the microphones.

Actually, some of my videos do sound far better than others, depending 
on where my dad is standing.

> As a 
> first guess I would say the organ pipes were designed so that the usual 
> audience in the church would hear the highest quality sound, so just 
> sticking the microphones down there would likely be a good start.

Trouble is, the audience seating is exactly behind me, so all you'd see 
is my back. But if I'm using a seperate microphone, that shouldn't be 
too bad. Actually the organ sounds OK from where I'm sitting (although 
most of the sound goes over my head - can you see where the pipes are?) 
The only trouble with that is that the manuals make quite a clattering. 
I have to open up quite a few stops to drown that out!

>> Of course, the fun part is synchronising picture to sound...
> 
> That's what clapperboards are for :-)

O RLY? :-P

Can I just maybe clap my hands together? That would work!

(I'm still trying to figure out why I had to manually adjust the 
synchronisation on some of the videos taken with my camera using its 
internal mic... like, WTF? It was 400 ms out!)

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49141354$1@news.povray.org...
> Trouble is, the audience seating is exactly behind me, so all you'd see is 
> my back. But if I'm using a seperate microphone, that shouldn't be too 
> bad. Actually the organ sounds OK from where I'm sitting (although most of 
> the sound goes over my head - can you see where the pipes are?) The only 
> trouble with that is that the manuals make quite a clattering. I have to 
> open up quite a few stops to drown that out!
>
A separate microphone offers the advantage to let you some freedom in 
chosing the place and orientation.
I disagree that audience place is the best. Churchs and even more cathedrals 
are not designed as musical theatres.
They are dedicated to worship, made mainly of stone or brick at least in 
Europe. To make short, the reverb time is veryyyyy long.
All you can do is to get a good balance between direct sound and 
reflections.
The issue is the length of wires between microphones and the camcorder.
A separate device for the sound is a good choice
What I 'm used to now is to make a close take (near the console) with a 
stereo pair aimed to the top of the pipes and an ambient take with a stereo 
pair aimed to the choir. I bought a nice compact device which comes with 4 
built in condenser microphones and records 24 bits 96kHz .wav on SD cards. 
It can bet set to record 2 simultaneous stereo files that you can mix 
aftertime or put in 4channels sound
http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1916

Marc

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Mike Raiford wrote:

> Thanks for that :) an interesting read. So, this is a pretty typical 
> organ, then?

If you're really interested... Start reading here:

http://www.agohq.org/guide/pages/pages_11_15/index.html

and continue through the following few sections. This will tell you the 
names of the divisions of a "typical" organ, which stops are usually in 
each division, and what they're for.

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
>> Mike Raiford wrote:
>>> So, the string division on this organ has dozens of stops?
>>
>> This is from the famous Wanamaker, the largest playable pipe organ in 
>> the entire world. And yes, it is famed for its *vast* string division. 
>> (The organ I played doesn't even have a single string stop. But then, 
>> it's a *church* organ rather than a *theatre* organ.)
> 
> To illustrate:
> 
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ02Lu8Zuzw
> 

Wow... just .. wow :) Yeah, definitely dos not sound like an organ. More 
tantamount to a modern-day electronic keyboard, but the whole thing is 
physical. Amazing what can be done with pipes.

> [Be sure to click the high-quality one. The sound is a bit better.]
> 
> Doesn't sound much like a "pipe organ", does it? Sounds more like an 
> entire orchestra. That's the difference. It's designed to emulate other 
> instruments as well as being a pipe organ.
>

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Good job - seriously!

By the way, I used to play the piano for my wife all the time when we
first started going out.  You have no idea how many girls love a guy who
can play :)  Unfortunately, there aren't many public places where you
can just walk up to a keyboard and go to town on it - schools and
churches seem to be the only ones.

...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

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Michael Raiford wrote:
> Wow... just .. wow :) Yeah, definitely dos not sound like an organ. More 
> tantamount to a modern-day electronic keyboard, but the whole thing is 
> physical. Amazing what can be done with pipes.

Then there are the (movie) "theatre organs", used for soundtracks before 
film had sound.  They usually had keys for things like gunshots, 
cymbals, snare drums, hoof beats, steam whistles, and so on.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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