"Orchid XP v8" <voi### [at] devnull> a écrit dans le message de 
news:48cea557@news.povray.org...

> All of which, AFAIK, have been around for at least 30 years, and nobody 
> has taken any notice whatsoever.

Actually, one of the reasons why the price of cheese went up is due to 
biofuels. A few countries (including the US) have been converting food maize 
and soybeans crops to biofuel maize for a few years now, due to attractive 
fuel prices: the US now uses more of its maize crop for biofuel than it 
sells abroad. Last year, with a few other factors, this cascaded into a 
world shortage of food/feed grains. The price of cereals doubled between May 
and September 2007, and drove up the price of feeds, and then of milk and 
cheese.

G

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Gilles Tran wrote:

> Actually, one of the reasons why the price of cheese went up is due to 
> biofuels. A few countries (including the US) have been converting food 
> maize and soybeans crops to biofuel maize for a few years now, due to 
> attractive fuel prices: the US now uses more of its maize crop for 
> biofuel than it sells abroad. Last year, with a few other factors, this 
> cascaded into a world shortage of food/feed grains. The price of cereals 
> doubled between May and September 2007, and drove up the price of feeds, 
> and then of milk and cheese.

...all of which leaves me wondering: How come Gilles knows so much about 
farming? ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> ....all of which leaves me wondering: How come Gilles knows so much 
> about farming? ;-)
> 
You've surely heard of the archetypical English farmer, Farmer Gil(l)es :-)

John

-- 
"Eppur si muove" - Galileo Galilei

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Am Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:18:56 +0200 schrieb scott:

> Long before oil actually runs out there are going to be cheaper
> alternatives.  Industries that are reliant on oil today will gradually
> shift as prices increase.

I worry more about the petrochemistry. Doesn't one need oil and gas for 
lots of polymers (i.e. plastic)? But probably you are right - it will 
just get more expensive and they will find other ways to synthesize the 
chemicals.

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"Orchid XP v8" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:48cea557@news.povray.org...
>>> I mean, theoretically some alternative might be found. But let's face 
>>> it, do you invest years in R&D?
>>
>> It's already happening.
>>
>> Biofuels
>> Electicity-powered cars.
>> Solar energy
>> Wind power
>
> All of which, AFAIK, have been around for at least 30 years, and nobody 
> has taken any notice whatsoever.

True, mainly because with the low price of oil they were all economically 
unfeasible. Not so with oil prices where they are now...

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Am Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:27:06 +0100 schrieb Invisible:

> 
> I'm begining to wonder whether the banks' product is actually *money* or
> just *confidence*. :-P
> 
I'm recommending "Making Money" by Terry Prattchet.

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> All of which, AFAIK, have been around for at least 30 years, and nobody 
> has taken any notice whatsoever.

Because oil has always been cheaper.  Once oil becomes more expensive that 
those other technologies, suddenly people are interested.  It will happen, 
*before* the oil runs out.

> And it rather worries me that once there is only a small pool of oil left 
> on the entire planet, whole nations will wage war for the rights to have 
> access to that pool.

Would probably use up more oil waging the war than you would get at the end! 
And by that time there will be cheaper alternatives in everyday use so 
nobody will care much about oil anymore.

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Doctor John wrote:

> Is it just me, but doesn't it seem odd that Andrew's mother emails him 
> about the price of cheese? He lives with her for $DEITY's sake!
> ...or are they not talking?
> ;-)


cut, and in a few months she'll be unemployed. Her bank balance hasn't 

face it, who the hell is going to hire an old fat women who's nearly 
retirement age?

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And lo on Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:18:56 +0100, scott <sco### [at] scottcom> did  
spake, saying:

>> It would be interesting to know which items are their loss-leaders...  
>> ;-)
>
> Usually very common items (bread etc), also usually placed at the back  
> of the shop so that you have to be tempted by 31434 other items before  
> you get there.

They also try and pick certain items they know that people compare between  
stores so their bread might be more expensive, but their milk is cheaper.  
Oh and shouldn't that be 31415 other items :-P

>> I just find it interesting that shops of all kinds are *always*  
>> advertising that their prices are going down and down and down.
>
> Ermm yeh, it helps get people to go to that store rather than a  
> competitor.

Tcch you'd think they were a business or something.

>> So, like, why didn't you do this sooner?

Because every supermarket used to be only really competing with roughly  
one other store - M&S vs. Waitrose; Tesco vs. Sainsbury's; Asda vs. Kwik  
Save. Now add in Morrisons, Lidl, Aldi etc. and combine it with people  
suddenly needing to think about which store they want to spend money in  
and it's a free-for-all.

> (And besides, as far as *I*
>> can tell, the actual prices rise and fall more or less at random, and  
>> they only advertise the ones that have fallen. I'm surprised that's  
>> legal...)
>
> Why? There's no law that says you have to advertise your entire product  
> range or not at all.

then you get those delightful adverts which show that X had 2,000 items  
cheaper, Y had 3,000, but our store has 5,000 cheaper. Doesn't say what  
exactly is cheaper, or even how they're comparing things.

>> Does it worry anybody *else* here that when all the oil runs out in 10  
>> years' time, the nations of the world are basically going to have a  
>> global thermonuclear war over the rights to the last remaining few  
>> drops?
>
> Long before oil actually runs out there are going to be cheaper  
> alternatives.  Industries that are reliant on oil today will gradually  
> shift as prices increase.

and as scott points out elsewhere the rising prices make alternatives more  
viable; and as Darren has pointed out a while ago the estimates were made  
using the then current extraction technique and there is in fact more  
availble that wasn't being touched because it would cost more to get at  
then to sell.

As Florian states the biggest worry is in the plastics industry, as soon  
as that began to dominate the materials industry the fact that we simply  
just burn the same stuff should have registered as a teensy bit off.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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And lo on Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:47:56 +0100, Gilles Tran  
<gil### [at] gmailcom> did spake, saying:

> "Orchid XP v8" <voi### [at] devnull> a écrit dans le message de  
> news:48cea557@news.povray.org...
>
>> All of which, AFAIK, have been around for at least 30 years, and nobody  
>> has taken any notice whatsoever.
>
> Actually, one of the reasons why the price of cheese went up is due to  
> biofuels. A few countries (including the US) have been converting food  
> maize and soybeans crops to biofuel maize for a few years now, due to  
> attractive fuel prices: the US now uses more of its maize crop for  
> biofuel than it sells abroad. Last year, with a few other factors, this  
> cascaded into a world shortage of food/feed grains. The price of cereals  
> doubled between May and September 2007, and drove up the price of feeds,  
> and then of milk and cheese.

All of which you've got to see the funny side of. The eco-warriers demand  
biofuels, some governments set up favourable legislation and as a result  
rainforests are cleared to grow maize and food prices increase. At least  
they've admitted that the outcome wasn't perhaps the best and they made a  
mistake; I don't think any of the governments have done the same yet.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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