Patrick Elliott wrote:
> Hmm. Yes and no. There are always scientists that opt to side with the 
> lunatic fringe and only use the science when/if it helps that agenda.

Well, I was speaking of Laura's father. I suppose there were a number of 
other "scientists" in the book that weren't so clear-cut.

> Someone had to make, for example, the alethiometer, 

It just seemed very contrived to me, is all. Breaking willing suspension 
of disbelief, that none of the scientists opposed to the Magesterium 
actually knew how the magic worked either.

I'd like to see fictional books that pit science against religion 
realistically, you know, where like science works reliably and people 
know why, kind of thing.

> Ah. Yes, those. But it does involve dust anyway, since there its "that" 
> which they feed on, in the end.

I couldn't figure out wtf they were feeding on, but now that you mention 
it, yeah, makes perfect sense. Duh on me.

> Its unclear how you show this, without "inventing" a 
> lot of silly fantasy elements to "replace" the existing silly ones. 

Not while making it amusing for children, I suppose, yes.

> The knife simply wasn't subtle enough. ;)

Heh.

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stbenge wrote:
> Warp wrote:
>>   I'm not really sure what I expected when I rented this movie, but I 
>> really
>> didn't expect it to be boring.
> 
> I saw it too, and yeah, it wasn't the best. I did not find the plot 
> confusing, but the ending left me wondering if they were going to 
> release a second or third installment.
> 
> Sam

If they had ended the movie where the book ended, there would have been 
no doubt that there would be a second or third movie. That would have 
committed them to the next movies and, you know those commercial 
businesses, they don't like to make a second or third if the first fails 
to sell.

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In article <486918c2$1@news.povray.org>, dne### [at] sanrrcom says...
> Patrick Elliott wrote:
> > Hmm. Yes and no. There are always scientists that opt to side with the
 
> > lunatic fringe and only use the science when/if it helps that agenda.
> 
> Well, I was speaking of Laura's father. I suppose there were a number of
 
> other "scientists" in the book that weren't so clear-cut.
> 
> > Someone had to make, for example, the alethiometer, 
> 
> It just seemed very contrived to me, is all. Breaking willing suspension
 
> of disbelief, that none of the scientists opposed to the Magesterium 
> actually knew how the magic worked either.
> 
Tell that to people building gravity meters. I am sure they could 
"test" for what ever made it work, even if they didn't get how. And, it 
was suppressed technology, so its not impossible that they tried, and 
given the power the Magesterium had in the book, actually succeeded, in 
destroying knowledge of how it worked, even if they missed all the 
devices.

> I'd like to see fictional books that pit science against religion 
> realistically, you know, where like science works reliably and people 
> know why, kind of thing.
> 
True enough. Though, I don't mind some that try to give semi-plausible 
reasons why some fantasy things do work, as long as those reasons in the 
end are "effected" by science in some fashion, and thus really part of a 
larger natural world. Its the ones that try to treat it as "separate", 
then even dumber, try to use a lot of gibberish and BS that is debunked 
to "show" how its untouchable/explanable/defies the laws of physics, 
that I have a problem with it. GC takes the, "its part of the greater 
natural world, just a lot of it is parts we normally don't, and can't, 
see directly.", approach. Its not doing an astounding job of it, but its 
dealing with trying to provide plausible reasons why some stupid stuff 
people insist, due to lack of any clue how often they have been tested, 
failed the test, and don't in fact work, *might* be there some place. 
Its like the steps some parents take when trying to teach their kids 
that the monsters on TV are not real, while sidestepping if Santa is or 
not. lol

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    if version = "Vista" {
      call slow_by_half();
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    }
    call functional_code();
  }
  else
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Patrick Elliott wrote:
> Tell that to people building gravity meters.

I'm not saying it's impossible for a world to have that happen. I'm 
saying it felt counter-productive to the point I thought he was making. 
Why have a book about "don't believe religious authorities" and then 
have a widely-known (and true) prophesy about how you shouldn't believe 
prophets?

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
  Helpful housekeeping hints:
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    before putting them in the washing machine.

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In article <486b1475@news.povray.org>, dne### [at] sanrrcom says...
> Patrick Elliott wrote:
> > Tell that to people building gravity meters.
> 
> I'm not saying it's impossible for a world to have that happen. I'm 
> saying it felt counter-productive to the point I thought he was making.
 
> Why have a book about "don't believe religious authorities" and then 
> have a widely-known (and true) prophesy about how you shouldn't believe
 
> prophets?
> 
lol True enough.

-- 
void main () {

    if version = "Vista" {
      call slow_by_half();
      call DRM_everything();
    }
    call functional_code();
  }
  else
    call crash_windows();
}

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3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>

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