Tom Austin wrote:

> just be careful you don't cause it to crack, leak and smoke....

Thanks - I'll keep that in mind. :-P

-- 
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Jim Henderson wrote:

> I'd start with Google or Wikipedia - both link to some fairly useful 
> resources. ;-)

Oh, sure, there's information out there. I was just wondering if anybody 
around here had practical experience with such things.

-- 
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http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Invisible wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>> I'd start with Google or Wikipedia - both link to some fairly useful
>> resources. ;-)
> 
> Oh, sure, there's information out there. I was just wondering if anybody
> around here had practical experience with such things.

I know somebody trying to port SETI@Home to FPGAs. Slow progress.

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On Tue, 20 May 2008 09:12:12 +0100, Invisible wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>> I'd start with Google or Wikipedia - both link to some fairly useful
>> resources. ;-)
> 
> Oh, sure, there's information out there. I was just wondering if anybody
> around here had practical experience with such things.

Ah. :-)

Jim

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Invisible wrote:
> Anybody have any experience with using FPGAs?

...so that'd be a "no" them.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Invisible wrote:
> So I know there's a fairly diverse set of people in here so... Anybody 
> have any experience with using FPGAs? It's something I've often thought 
> of playing with, but I have no idea (1) how much it costs, and (2) how 
> difficult it is to make something that works.

If you want to fork out $15, I suggest you subscribe to Circuit Cellar's
electronic edition (http://www.circuitcellar.com/). The June edition (not
yet shown on the website, though it is available for download) features a
raytracer implemented in an FPGA. It uses 24-bit fixed-point math, so is
not really useful for assisting POV, but still it's an interesting project
if you're curious about FPGA's. They also use the FPGA to implement a
framebuffer and generate VGA output.

NB you can purchase one-off editions, but that issue isn't yet linked.

-- Chris

PS in answer to your question, FPGA's cost anything from 'very little' to
'too much'. Around here we use some high-end Xilinx devices which IIRC cost
around $600 each - but that series are definitely not hobbyist devices.

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Chris Cason wrote:

> If you want to fork out $15, I suggest you subscribe to Circuit Cellar's
> electronic edition (http://www.circuitcellar.com/). The June edition (not
> yet shown on the website, though it is available for download) features a
> raytracer implemented in an FPGA. It uses 24-bit fixed-point math, so is
> not really useful for assisting POV, but still it's an interesting project
> if you're curious about FPGA's. They also use the FPGA to implement a
> framebuffer and generate VGA output.
> 
> NB you can purchase one-off editions, but that issue isn't yet linked.
> 
> -- Chris
> 
> PS in answer to your question, FPGA's cost anything from 'very little' to
> 'too much'. Around here we use some high-end Xilinx devices which IIRC cost
> around $600 each - but that series are definitely not hobbyist devices.

Heh. Chris Cason. Is there anything he can't do? ;-)

I've been to the Xilinx website and looked at the various "development 
boards" they offer, and most of them seem to be around $2,000. Obviously 
I don't have that kind of money. I'll have to hunt around further to see 
if they offer anything at more sane prices.

Also, if memory serves me correctly, the Xilinx software is a free 
download; they make their money from selling you the hardware. Maybe I 
should start there... although circuit cellar certainly seems worth a 
look too.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Heh. Chris Cason. Is there anything he can't do? ;-)

Get betas out on time?

> I've been to the Xilinx website and looked at the various "development 
> boards" they offer, and most of them seem to be around $2,000. Obviously 
> I don't have that kind of money. I'll have to hunt around further to see 
> if they offer anything at more sane prices.

Hmmm, thought they had some cheap ones. Check out Altera. I seem to recall
they have some small, cheapish (around the $100-$200 mark) boards.

Also, keep an eye out for a CPLD devkit. CPLD's are (simply put) FPGA's
with persistent configuration; i.e. you don't need to re-program them each
time they are powered up.

> Also, if memory serves me correctly, the Xilinx software is a free 
> download; they make their money from selling you the hardware. Maybe I 

Like Altera they probably have an advanced version of the software that
costs $$$. Back about ten years ago, even the base software version cost
$1000 or so, but then they woke up to the fact that they are a hardware
company and would probably sell more FPGA's if they didn't put barriers in
the way of people designing with them. (This may seem obvious, but to bean
counters, it apparently isn't: e.g. take the fact that Microsoft used to
charge a few grand for the Windows 1.0 and 2.0 SDK's before realising
they'd have more users if it was free).

-- Chris

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> I've been to the Xilinx website and looked at the various "development 
> boards" they offer, and most of them seem to be around $2,000. Obviously 
> I don't have that kind of money. I'll have to hunt around further to see 
> if they offer anything at more sane prices.

Try Sparkfun:

  http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8458
  http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8460
  http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8595

-- Chris

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>> Heh. Chris Cason. Is there anything he can't do? ;-)
> 
> Get betas out on time?

OMG, PWN3D!!

[0wned BY YOURSELF! That's gotta be some uber-1337ness or something...]

> Also, keep an eye out for a CPLD devkit. CPLD's are (simply put) FPGA's
> with persistent configuration; i.e. you don't need to re-program them each
> time they are powered up.

OK, that's news. I was under the impression that an FPGA works something 
like an EPROM - you use UV to erase it and then program in all the 
circuit connections, and thereafter it just works.

>> Also, if memory serves me correctly, the Xilinx software is a free 
>> download; they make their money from selling you the hardware.
> 
> Like Altera they probably have an advanced version of the software that
> costs $$$.

Ah. Yeah, they probably have a free version, so you can see what it's 
like, and then a super version that produces 10% more efficient layouts 
or something. ;-)

> Back about ten years ago, even the base software version cost
> $1000 or so, but then they woke up to the fact that they are a hardware
> company and would probably sell more FPGA's if they didn't put barriers in
> the way of people designing with them. (This may seem obvious, but to bean
> counters, it apparently isn't: e.g. take the fact that Microsoft used to
> charge a few grand for the Windows 1.0 and 2.0 SDK's before realising
> they'd have more users if it was free).

Well, we charge people money = more money comes in. It seems like a 
simple equation. Until you realise that the software is pretty much a 
KILLER loss-leader... [It must surely cost them money to develop the 
software of course, but it's fairly useless without the hardware.]

PS. I hear Xilinx bases their synthesis technology on Haskell. I don't 
know how true that is...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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