Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> (But then, in an Ask the Audience round one time, 4% of the people 
> thought that "Ludwig van Bathoven" was English. Hell, even *I* can 
> figure that out out...)

Beethoven.  wonderful painter, huh? ;)

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nemesis wrote:
> Orchid XP v7 wrote:
>> Darren New wrote:
>>> Just FYI, Russell did for set theory (i.e., the basis of most or all 
>>> modern math) what Godel and Turing did for their fields.
>>
>> *resists urge to ask who Godel is*
> 
> good thing your curiosity was not complete. ;)
> 
> well, at least you seem aware of Turing.  or at least his machine...

I live about 15 miles from Bletchley Part. C'mon! ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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nemesis wrote:

> hey, Orchid, do you care for anything other than math and algorythms?

Yeah. Watching darts is fun. ;-)

> Do you know how the real world works?

Actually no. Do you??

> How about getting started on it 
> rather than being flamed to death as someone stupid?

I'm pretty sure we've had this conversation before... It basically 
amounts to "I don't know where to start".

But either way, I don't see how it's necessary to know who Russell is to 
participate in "the real world". :-P

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Darren New wrote:
> Vincent Le Chevalier wrote:

>>> BTW, it sounds like "BEH zee ay", according to wikipedia:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_B%C3%A9zier
>>>
>>> no final R sound?
>>>
>> Nope, in French the letters "er" at the end of words are generally 

> 
> So why are the first two sounds different?
> 

In fact they are not really different :-)

I guess they transcribed it in this way because of the neighbouring "i" 
that blends with the last sound a bit. On the other hand I'm not a 
native English speaker so the transcription is not easy for me to 
interpret...



"i" (pronounced as in "fit"). I don't know if that sort of sound is 
common in English, I can't find any good example right now...


and none of the numerous variants in English :-)

-- 
Vincent

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Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> andrel wrote:
> 
>> No actually I think you have no idea what astonishment you create when 
>> you admit you have never heard of Russell or his profound impact on 
>> mathematics and logic.
> 
> Right. Well the history of... well anything really... isn't my strong 
> point.
> 
> FWIW, I saw some pretty astonished faces when I admitted that I 
> mistakenly thought that Brazil is in Europe. (I now realise quite how 
> wrong I in fact was...)
> 
Good, keep that image in mind. Now assume that you tell a bunch of 
'friends', who know that you are interested in logic, that you have 
never heard of Bertrand Russel. You still have that image?

BTW unless Brazil is history it does not prove your point.

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Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
> 
>> OK, the point *I* was making is that people still remember who Russell 
>> is and what he did 100 years ago, while "normal programmers" half the 
>> time don't even get their names displayed in the credits of their own 
>> creations.
> 
> Mmm, OK.
> 
>> Just FYI, Russell did for set theory (i.e., the basis of most or all 
>> modern math) what Godel and Turing did for their fields.
> 
> *resists urge to ask who Godel is*
> 
You remember the fixed point operator of lambda calculus? and how you 
can use that to prove that if you try to assign a meaning of true and 
false to every lambda expression the fixed point of the negation can 
neither be true or false? Hence it is impossible to decide the truth of 
every lambda expression. Goedel (that is an o-umlaut hence the spelling 
with and without e) did the same for ordinary logic. Proving that the 
attempts of Russel to combine all logic into one complete theory was in 
vain. There will always be statements that can not be proven within a 
set of axioms and theories.

But I suspect this time you were joking.

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Vincent Le Chevalier wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> Vincent Le Chevalier wrote:

>>>> BTW, it sounds like "BEH zee ay", according to wikipedia:
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_B%C3%A9zier
>>>>
>>>> no final R sound?
>>>>
>>> Nope, in French the letters "er" at the end of words are generally 

>>
>> So why are the first two sounds different?
>>
> 
> In fact they are not really different :-)
> 
> I guess they transcribed it in this way because of the neighbouring "i" 
> that blends with the last sound a bit. On the other hand I'm not a 
> native English speaker so the transcription is not easy for me to 
> interpret...

It may be subtle but I think the 'er' indicates that after the 'ay' 
sound the vowel is cut off. But then again, I am not a native speaker.



> "i" (pronounced as in "fit"). I don't know if that sort of sound is 
> common in English, I can't find any good example right now...


that may be because both are close to my native 'ee'. And yes I do 
pronounce it quite often as my first name IRL ends in one. Name borrowed 
from the French.


> and none of the numerous variants in English :-)
> 
You mean that there are no dialects in France?

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>>> Just FYI, Russell did for set theory (i.e., the basis of most or all 
>>> modern math) what Godel and Turing did for their fields.
>>
>> *resists urge to ask who Godel is*
>>
> You remember the fixed point operator of lambda calculus? and how you 
> can use that to prove that if you try to assign a meaning of true and 
> false to every lambda expression the fixed point of the negation can 
> neither be true or false? Hence it is impossible to decide the truth of 
> every lambda expression. Goedel (that is an o-umlaut hence the spelling 
> with and without e) did the same for ordinary logic. Proving that the 
> attempts of Russel to combine all logic into one complete theory was in 
> vain. There will always be statements that can not be proven within a 
> set of axioms and theories.
> 
> But I suspect this time you were joking.

The fixed-point operator confounds me. I really don't get it...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>> Right. Well the history of... well anything really... isn't my strong 
>> point.
>>
>> FWIW, I saw some pretty astonished faces when I admitted that I 
>> mistakenly thought that Brazil is in Europe. (I now realise quite how 
>> wrong I in fact was...)
>>
> Good, keep that image in mind. Now assume that you tell a bunch of 
> 'friends', who know that you are interested in logic, that you have 
> never heard of Bertrand Russel. You still have that image?
> 
> BTW unless Brazil is history it does not prove your point.

Who said history is the *only* thing I suck at? I'm quite there's quite 
a long list there... :-/

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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andrel wrote:

> that may be because both are close to my native 'ee'.


pronunciation of English is deficient as well :-)


> And yes I do 
> pronounce it quite often as my first name IRL ends in one. Name borrowed 
> from the French.


minor influence from the preceding 'i'.


>> and none of the numerous variants in English :-)
>>
> You mean that there are no dialects in France?

No, I mean people sometimes pronounce them differently (to the point 

pronunciation you are ordinarily taught at school distinguishes only 
these two sounds, allowing a fair bit of variation for each.

-- 
Vincent

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