I've done a lot of tourist-y travelling. Granted, it's been to touristy
places, but it includes NY City subway stations and a lot of places which
seemed to have included a wide slice of the American demographic. I didn't
think I needed to "get out more."

Anyway, we're driving down the eastern seaboard, and stop in Dover,
Delaware, at a pizza restaurant that is on an eight-lane highway full of
stoplights, in an ugly place with about a mile of concrete for shopping
malls on either side of the road.  While we were eating, I was notably
upset at the babies crying. It sounded like the plaintive wails of
neglected children, about 3 in the place. I was spooked or creeped out
after a while and still am when I think about it.

My wife wondered if it were merely my prejudice at those from a lower
socioeconomic status. Maybe so, but I thought I'd been around, and just
exactly how poor can you be and still take your family out to eat?  Our son
is far from perfect in sociability or manners, but he KNOWS how to behave
in a restaurant. Since he was 18 months we'd gotten compliments on his
behavior.  Partly due to pure empathy and letting him know there are things
we have zero tolerance for. 

So, is babies-wailing a cultural thing?  If you go to restaurants in
different corners of Europe or Asia (or the world), is wailing the norm in
some parts?  Or does it take a lot of disposable income & time to keep
snacks and toys ready for a kid the moment he peeps?   Or can there be
geographic concentrations of actual indifference to babies' well-being?

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Greg M. Johnson wrote:
> I've done a lot of tourist-y travelling. Granted, it's been to touristy
> places, but it includes NY City subway stations and a lot of places which
> seemed to have included a wide slice of the American demographic. I didn't
> think I needed to "get out more."
> 
> Anyway, we're driving down the eastern seaboard, and stop in Dover,
> Delaware, at a pizza restaurant that is on an eight-lane highway full of
> stoplights, in an ugly place with about a mile of concrete for shopping
> malls on either side of the road.  While we were eating, I was notably
> upset at the babies crying. It sounded like the plaintive wails of
> neglected children, about 3 in the place. I was spooked or creeped out
> after a while and still am when I think about it.
> 
> My wife wondered if it were merely my prejudice at those from a lower
> socioeconomic status. Maybe so, but I thought I'd been around, and just
> exactly how poor can you be and still take your family out to eat?  Our son
> is far from perfect in sociability or manners, but he KNOWS how to behave
> in a restaurant. Since he was 18 months we'd gotten compliments on his
> behavior.  Partly due to pure empathy and letting him know there are things
> we have zero tolerance for. 
> 
> So, is babies-wailing a cultural thing?  If you go to restaurants in
> different corners of Europe or Asia (or the world), is wailing the norm in
> some parts?  Or does it take a lot of disposable income & time to keep
> snacks and toys ready for a kid the moment he peeps?   Or can there be
> geographic concentrations of actual indifference to babies' well-being?
> 
> 
I am not an expert (no kids myself and only one grandson), but I thought 
it is mainly a personality question. Some kids do and some kids don't. A 
bit of training might help a bit in one direction or the other, but 
below a certain age you can not train. I know of families where only one 
baby cried a lot and the others were mostly silent and adult friendly. 
AFAIK nobody knows why some kids wail all the time, it seems unrelated 
to well-being and comfort. I guess you were lucky and so was I (most of 
the time).

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andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> I am not an expert (no kids myself and only one grandson)

  I have hard time figuring out how that is even possible...

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
> andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>> I am not an expert (no kids myself and only one grandson)
> 
>   I have hard time figuring out how that is even possible...

*blinks*

lol

-- 
Tim Cook
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-empyrean

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PGP-(--) t* 5++>+++++ X+ R* tv+ b++(+++) DI
D++(---) G(++) e*>++ h+ !r--- !y--
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

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Greg M. Johnson wrote:
>...at a pizza restaurant that is on an eight-lane highway full of
> stoplights, in an ugly place with about a mile of concrete for shopping
> malls on either side of the road...

Babies have much more sensitive hearing than adults.  I'd be inclined to 
wonder if they were picking up on obnoxious sounds that you or I might 
not be able to hear.  And don't forget that one crying baby can trigger 
every baby for miles around to join in.

I would also expect there to be considerable randomness in the number of 
babies in the restaurant on that particular day, the personalities of 
the babies present, ambient temperature, time of day, noise levels, air 
quality--all the many things that can get a baby's attention in a 
negative way.

--Sherry Shaw


-- 
#macro T(E,N)sphere{x,.4rotate z*E*60translate y*N pigment{wrinkles scale
.3}finish{ambient 1}}#end#local I=0;#while(I<5)T(I,1)T(1-I,-1)#local I=I+
1;#end camera{location-5*z}plane{z,37 pigment{granite color_map{[.7rgb 0]
[1rgb 1]}}finish{ambient 2}}//                                   TenMoons

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Greg M. Johnson wrote:
> It sounded like the plaintive wails of
> neglected children, about 3 in the place.

I had a similar experience once, and after about 3 minutes the thought 
"gas arrow" went thru my head.  At that point, I knew I'd been playing 
Thief too much.

Incidentally, in the US, it's often cheaper to eat out at an inexpensive 
restaurant (like pizza of McD) than to buy fresh food to prepare at 
home. That's why poor people get fat here.

> geographic concentrations of actual indifference to babies' well-being?

I don't know that a wailing baby is suffering from lack of well-being, 
let alone indifference from the parents.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     It's not feature creep if you put it
     at the end and adjust the release date.

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On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 06:39:36 -0500, Warp wrote:

> andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>> I am not an expert (no kids myself and only one grandson)
> 
>   I have hard time figuring out how that is even possible...

Stepkids.

I have a stepson, no kids of my own, though.  Over the years, I've been 
more of a father than his biological father (who has finally started 
taking an interest again - now that Ken's 20 and he's off the hook 
financially for child support etc), but when Ken has a child, that child 
will likely identify me as their grandparent, even though biologically 
it's not the case.

That's the only way I can work it out for Andrel.

Jim

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On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 10:24:07 -0800, Darren New wrote:

> Incidentally, in the US, it's often cheaper to eat out at an inexpensive
> restaurant (like pizza of McD) than to buy fresh food to prepare at
> home. That's why poor people get fat here.

I don't know about cheaper, but easier it certainly is.  Especially with 
a bunch of kids that need to be fed.

I've noticed the disparity between the cost of healthy food and the cost 
of "junk" food and have commented on it to friends/family around here; 
$0.75 for a Coke vs. $1.50 or $2.25 for a bottle of orange juice, that 
sort of thing.

But we've done a little analysis on our own menu (as we used to eat out 
several times a week) and have found, for example, that going out and 
having chicken fettuccine is much more expensive than making it at home.

4 portions of the above made at home costs us about $4.  Getting it while 
eating out costs nearly $35.

Similarly, if we were to make 1/4 lb hamburgers at home, the cost works 
out to about $1.25 using organic beef.  If we got lower quality beef, we 
would be sub-$1.  The disparity in cost isn't as large as something like 
the chicken pasta.

It does, of course, help to have equipment to make the food in, and as a 
throwaway society, we tend to spend more on the equipment than we should 
(because we have to buy it several times).  So equipment costs aren't 
factored into those costs.

But the number of times I've made homemade fettuccine, the cost of the 
pasta roller/cutter (and the Kitchen Aid mixer it attaches to) is down to 
pennies per serving.  But having been near bankruptcy myself years ago, I 
know that paying the bills and buying equipment to make good inexpensive 
food is nearly impossible.

Jim

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"Sherry Shaw" <ten### [at] aolcom> wrote in message 
news:475c269f@news.povray.org...

> Babies have much more sensitive hearing than adults.  I'd be inclined to 
> wonder if they were picking up on obnoxious sounds that you or I might not 
> be able to hear.


   Yeah, it's the damn kid in the corner with a dog whistle...


     ~Steve~   ;)





> --Sherry Shaw
>
>
> -- 
> #macro T(E,N)sphere{x,.4rotate z*E*60translate y*N pigment{wrinkles scale
> .3}finish{ambient 1}}#end#local I=0;#while(I<5)T(I,1)T(1-I,-1)#local I=I+
> 1;#end camera{location-5*z}plane{z,37 pigment{granite color_map{[.7rgb 0]
> [1rgb 1]}}finish{ambient 2}}//                                   TenMoons

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"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message 
news:475c3e4d@news.povray.org...


    Ham...bur...gers...

    Want... three...

    or 4...



> Jim

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