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If you write stuff in LaTeX, you can ask for a section heading or a
subsection heading, and LaTeX will automatically take care of all
formatting for you. Indeed, it will even build a table of contents if
you want.
If you write stuff in HTML, you can also ask for various levels of
headings. And using CSS, you can tune exactly what the result looks
like. For example, if you suddenly decide that you want all the level 2
headings in italics, you can change 1 line of CSS and the whole document
is instantly updated to match.
And yet, no known word processor works like this. I find this deeply
frustrating. I should be able to just hilight some text and say "this is
a heading" and all the formatting should *just work*. But I have yet to
find a word processor that can do this. And it irritates the hell out of me!
Both Word and OpenOffice provide "styles", but good luck figuring out
how to work them. In particular, Word provides styles called "Normal",
"Heading 1", "Heading 2", etc. But it seems to be physically impossible
to *change* these styles. And what the hell is the point of a style that
you can't change? Being able to instantly change all the headings in
your document at once is the entire *point* of styles!! So why make them
read-only?
(I've just moved from Word 97 to Word 2003. It's really quite amusing
watching it create millions of useless style objects each time I press a
formatting button. It would be far more amusing however if I could
actually *use* styles to do something useful...)
As for OpenOffice Writer, here again we have styles. Except that here
the style system is way more complex; I really can't figure it out.
There seems to be several types of styles depending on what they apply
to and... I'm confused. Also, once again the defaults are not to my
liking, but there appears to be absolutely no way to change them. (Short
of editing each one by hand, for all several million. It also appears to
be impossible to remove unwanted styles...)
Seriously. I want to be able to create sections and subsections, and *I*
want to choose what these look like. Is that really so hard? Why has
nobody implemented this simple feature yet??
(In particular, I utterly *hate* sans serif fonts. Yet all these
programs always default to it. GRR! At least Excel lets you change the
default worksheet font; OpenOffice Calc seems to lack any such option...)
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> And yet, no known word processor works like this.
Hahaha what? You mean you don't know how to use Styles in Word? How on
Earth do you write anything longer than a few pages efficiently?
> Both Word and OpenOffice provide "styles", but good luck figuring out how
> to work them. In particular, Word provides styles called "Normal",
> "Heading 1", "Heading 2", etc. But it seems to be physically impossible to
> *change* these styles.
Get up the style and formatting tool bar, then just click the style
drop-down menu and choose "Modify...".
> Seriously. I want to be able to create sections and subsections, and *I*
> want to choose what these look like. Is that really so hard? Why has
> nobody implemented this simple feature yet??
A million other people want to do exactly what you say, and actually do do
it everyday in MS Word.
> (In particular, I utterly *hate* sans serif fonts. Yet all these programs
> always default to it. GRR! At least Excel lets you change the default
> worksheet font; OpenOffice Calc seems to lack any such option...)
Go to Word, change the "Normal" style to use Arial font, then save the
document as NORMAL.DOT (search to see where your NORMAL.DOT is currently
located and overwrite it). Job done.
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472f0772$1@news.povray.org...
> "Heading 1", "Heading 2", etc. But it seems to be physically impossible to
> *change* these styles.
Because you're a wimp. Go build some muscles. Have you looked at all those
secretaries? Seen their huge, bulging forearms and their sausage-thick
fingers ? That's the key. You need to try *** very hard *** to change styles
in Word.
You can also use a sledgehammer but you'll be breaking the EULA, and
Microsoft lawyers will have Northampton nuked into a glowing glass sheet
before you can spell Arial.
G.
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scott wrote:
>> And yet, no known word processor works like this.
>
> Hahaha what? You mean you don't know how to use Styles in Word? How on
> Earth do you write anything longer than a few pages efficiently?
>
>> Both Word and OpenOffice provide "styles", but good luck figuring out
>> how to work them. In particular, Word provides styles called "Normal",
>> "Heading 1", "Heading 2", etc. But it seems to be physically
>> impossible to *change* these styles.
>
> Get up the style and formatting tool bar, then just click the style
> drop-down menu and choose "Modify...".
>
>> Seriously. I want to be able to create sections and subsections, and
>> *I* want to choose what these look like. Is that really so hard? Why
>> has nobody implemented this simple feature yet??
>
> A million other people want to do exactly what you say, and actually do
> do it everyday in MS Word.
>
>> (In particular, I utterly *hate* sans serif fonts. Yet all these
>> programs always default to it. GRR! At least Excel lets you change the
>> default worksheet font; OpenOffice Calc seems to lack any such option...)
>
> Go to Word, change the "Normal" style to use Arial font, then save the
> document as NORMAL.DOT (search to see where your NORMAL.DOT is currently
> located and overwrite it). Job done.
>
>
I just worked with styles in Word in a doc. Both helpful and a pain at
the same time. As with any thing - you must become an expert in it
before it truly becomes helpful and saves time. Until them you are
fighting it to get what you want.
Have fun!
Tom
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scott wrote:
>> And yet, no known word processor works like this.
>
> Hahaha what? You mean you don't know how to use Styles in Word? How on
> Earth do you write anything longer than a few pages efficiently?
Isn't the answer obvious? "I don't".
(As far as I can tell, nobody else here knows how to work styles either.
Granted, most of them wouldn't actually *care*, but our report writers
certainly might...)
>> Both Word and OpenOffice provide "styles", but good luck figuring out
>> how to work them. In particular, Word provides styles called "Normal",
>> "Heading 1", "Heading 2", etc. But it seems to be physically
>> impossible to *change* these styles.
>
> Get up the style and formatting tool bar, then just click the style
> drop-down menu and choose "Modify...".
Ah-hah. So there *is* a secret hidden tool for altering them! (At least,
there is in Word 2003.)
Still puzzled as to why you have to open up a special window to do this.
(I.e., why you can't just click on the style you want to change.) But
then, this is from the program where you can't change any program
settings unless you have a document open. (WTF?)
(Ooo, that's nice... If I change a style to match an existing one, the
existing one gets deleted. And if I change the justification for the
Normal style, the other styles update. Pitty you can't explicitly say
which settings are applied in THIS style and which ones should just be
inherited...)
>> (In particular, I utterly *hate* sans serif fonts. Yet all these
>> programs always default to it. GRR! At least Excel lets you change the
>> default worksheet font; OpenOffice Calc seems to lack any such option...)
>
> Go to Word, change the "Normal" style to use Arial font, then save the
> document as NORMAL.DOT (search to see where your NORMAL.DOT is currently
> located and overwrite it). Job done.
Well, you just described the steps to do the *opposite* of what I want
to do (i.e., I want to change *from* Arial, not *to* it), but OK. Let's
see now...
OK, no go. Word *refuses* to overwrite NORMAL.DOT because it's already
open. (Duh!) God I hate Word! >_<
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Gilles Tran wrote:
> Because you're a wimp. Go build some muscles. Have you looked at all those
> secretaries? Seen their huge, bulging forearms and their sausage-thick
> fingers ? That's the key. You need to try *** very hard *** to change styles
> in Word.
Try "very hard" as in "with a 2 Telsa magnet"?
> You can also use a sledgehammer but you'll be breaking the EULA
Heh. Isn't installing VNC a violation of the EULA? (And, for that
matter, turning off Automatic Updates...)
> Microsoft lawyers will have Northampton nuked into a glowing glass sheet
> before you can spell Arial.
Ooo, that would be nice... Maybe then they'll stop holding all the speed
dating events in Northampton and start holding them in *my* hometown
again! Yays!
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"Invisible" <voi### [at] dev null> wrote in message
news:472f0772$1@news.povray.org...
> If you write stuff in LaTeX, you can ask for a section heading or a
> subsection heading, and LaTeX will automatically take care of all
> formatting for you. Indeed, it will even build a table of contents if you
> want.
>
> If you write stuff in HTML, you can also ask for various levels of
> headings. And using CSS, you can tune exactly what the result looks like.
> For example, if you suddenly decide that you want all the level 2 headings
> in italics, you can change 1 line of CSS and the whole document is
> instantly updated to match.
>
> And yet, no known word processor works like this. I find this deeply
> frustrating. I should be able to just hilight some text and say "this is a
> heading" and all the formatting should *just work*. But I have yet to find
> a word processor that can do this. And it irritates the hell out of me!
Whinge, whinge, whinge. :-P :-)
They do do it. You just haven't figured it out.
> Both Word and OpenOffice provide "styles", but good luck figuring out how
> to work them. In particular, Word provides styles called "Normal",
> "Heading 1", "Heading 2", etc. But it seems to be physically impossible to
> *change* these styles.
They can be changed.
> And what the hell is the point of a style that you can't change? Being
> able to instantly change all the headings in your document at once is the
> entire *point* of styles!! So why make them read-only?
They're not read-only, so blaming them for not doing it is void. :-p
> (I've just moved from Word 97 to Word 2003. It's really quite amusing
> watching it create millions of useless style objects each time I press a
> formatting button. It would be far more amusing however if I could
> actually *use* styles to do something useful...)
Ok, I'll be more helpful. For working in Word 2003...
I included a Word doc I quickly bashed together for you to demonstrate.
Literally took me a few minutes. Virus scanned with McAfee VirusScan10
Engine 5100, Dat Version 5155 (2/11/2007)
First thing you should do: Set "Style area width" to 1.67 cm.
Found in (Tools / Options / View Tab) near the bottom of the dialog.
Now, when you view your document in "Normal" mode, you can see and select
the style headings down the left side of every paragraph. Makes editing
life much easier.
To convert the current paragraph into a Heading style at the current level,
press <alt-shift-LeftArrow>. The first time you do it, it will be Heading
1.
To make a subordinate-level heading (eg Heading 2, 3, 4...) out of the
current paragraph, press <alt-shift-RightArrow>. Repeat if necessary to go
further.
To promote the current paragraph up the Heading heirarchy, press
<alt-shift-LeftArrow> as many times as needed.
To change the current paragraph to Normal style, press <ctrl-shift-N>. Or,
if your NumLock toggle is OFF, you can press <alt-shift-Keypad5>
To change every instance of a particular style in the document:
Double-click the name in the style area next to its paragraph. You get the
"Style" dialog. Choose "Modify...". You get the "Modify Style" dialog. Do
whatever you want to it out of the "Format" drop button. OK and Apply your
way out. Bingo.
To have ALL instances of a particular style change throughout the document
as soon as you change the format of any one of them: Go to that "Modify
Style" dialog again. Tick "Automatically Update". NOTE: Any subordinate
styles that inherit format code from the style you changed, would all change
too, unless they have an explicit setting. (eg. if you italicise "Heading
2", the same will happen to "Heading 3, 4, 5") But that is logical.
> As for OpenOffice Writer,
Unfamiliar with OOW.
> Seriously. I want to be able to create sections and subsections, and *I*
> want to choose what these look like. Is that really so hard? Why has
> nobody implemented this simple feature yet??
>
> (In particular, I utterly *hate* sans serif fonts. Yet all these programs
> always default to it. GRR! At least Excel lets you change the default
> worksheet font; OpenOffice Calc seems to lack any such option...)
I'd feel sad for you, but I prefer sans-serif. Particularly for the types
of documentation we do most of at work (standards, policy, process, work
instruction, system description). Easier to read and clearer pages than all
the serif clutter, which I think is more appropriate to books and
promotional material.
Post a reply to this message
Attachments:
Download 'this is a document title.doc.dat' (40 KB)
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> Both Word and OpenOffice provide "styles", but good luck figuring out
> how to work them. In particular, Word provides styles called "Normal",
> "Heading 1", "Heading 2", etc. But it seems to be physically impossible
> to *change* these styles. And what the hell is the point of a style that
> you can't change? Being able to instantly change all the headings in
> your document at once is the entire *point* of styles!! So why make them
> read-only?
>
> (I've just moved from Word 97 to Word 2003. It's really quite amusing
> watching it create millions of useless style objects each time I press a
> formatting button. It would be far more amusing however if I could
> actually *use* styles to do something useful...)
I find it interesting that nobody on earth ever uses them. Come on, I
just decided all those headings on the 30-page document shouldn't be
centered. Go change them. Would take seconds using styles.
You *can* change them and stuff. It's in, erm... *opens Word* (I haven't
used it in years (didn't need to) and now I have a different version).
OK If you're in 2003, use the styles dropdown and click "More" (or on
the menu: Formatting | Styles and formatting). It opens a silly sidebar
called "Styles and formatting". Click on the arrow on one of those
styles and it opens a menu containing "Modify".
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> And yet, no known word processor works like this. I find this deeply
> frustrating. I should be able to just hilight some text and say "this is
> a heading" and all the formatting should *just work*. But I have yet to
> find a word processor that can do this. And it irritates the hell out of
> me!
Lotus Ami Pro did that pretty well. Most consistent style-sheets system
I encountered in a word processor. Don't know if they still sell Ami's
successor, Word Pro.
BTW, don't highlight text when applying a style, just put the cursor within the
paragraph, and the style will be applied to the paragraph (that's how
it should be).
> Both Word and OpenOffice provide "styles", but good luck figuring out
> how to work them. In particular, Word provides styles called "Normal",
> "Heading 1", "Heading 2", etc. But it seems to be physically impossible
> to *change* these styles. And what the hell is the point of a style that
> you can't change? Being able to instantly change all the headings in
> your document at once is the entire *point* of styles!! So why make them
> read-only?
While Word is often of unpredictable nature, I actually manage to use MSWord's
Heading styles with custom appearance, without much hitches. The main
rule I would give in that area is : don't try to do a numbered heading
hierarchy (1.1 1.2 1.2.1 ...) with other styles than Word's standard
"Heading X" styles.
I didn't encounter much problem doing this in OO, either.
> (I've just moved from Word 97 to Word 2003. It's really quite amusing
> watching it create millions of useless style objects each time I press a
> formatting button. It would be far more amusing however if I could
> actually *use* styles to do something useful...)
It needs to be heavily configured to avoid most of these annoying
on-the-fly-style-creations. Once you are accustomed to be very
cautious about what you're doing (never touch the ruler, always
paste-as-plain-text from other texts,...), you can have a chance to
limit the number of styles in use (been there, done that).
> As for OpenOffice Writer, here again we have styles. Except that here
> the style system is way more complex; I really can't figure it out.
> There seems to be several types of styles depending on what they apply
> to and... I'm confused. Also, once again the defaults are not to my
> liking, but there appears to be absolutely no way to change them. (Short
> of editing each one by hand, for all several million. It also appears to
> be impossible to remove unwanted styles...)
In OO, styles are generally cascading from "standard".
Do you want me to prepare a base document in OO or Word, based on your
indications, so you can see how it works from an already customised
document ?
Fabien.
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"Brian Elliott" <NotForSpam@AskIfUWant> wrote in message
news:472f2462@news.povray.org...
Oh, and here's a version with Heading-based auto-numbering turned on. Took
another 20 seconds to do.
Put your cursor in a "Heading 1"-style paragraph (important).
Menu: Format / "bullets and numbering" / "Outline Numbered" tab.
Select the example that looks like
1 Heading 1 ----------
1.1 Heading 2 ----------
1.1.1 Heading 3 ----------
They are also customisable from that dialog.
Post a reply to this message
Attachments:
Download 'this is a document title.doc.dat' (41 KB)
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