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Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] san rrcom> wrote:
>> Are you saying the only operations to put data *on* the stack are DUP
>> and PUSH IMMEDIATE? Seems like it would be difficult to do much, yah.
>
> It supports pushing characters (as their ascii values) in a string too,
> but that isn't much of a help in this case.
I take it you mean in the same way you could just code a series of "push
this integer literal" instruction?
I don't see how you can do it, then. Imagine a 10,000 state turing
machine. You wouldn't be able to access state 5000's instruction without
wiping out at least instructions 5003-10000.
Maybe there's something exceptionally clever you could do, but with
limited-width registers (i.e., top-of-stack) it would be hard to know what.
Out of curiousity, what kind of language or machine is this? Or is this
like some contest/homework style problem?
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Remember the good old days, when we
used to complain about cryptography
being export-restricted?
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Out of curiousity, what kind of language or machine is this?
Befunge.
I tried to create a mandelbrot generator with it. Failed.
--
- Warp
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Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> > Out of curiousity, what kind of language or machine is this?
>
> Befunge.
>
> I tried to create a mandelbrot generator with it. Failed.
>
> --
> - Warp
What about
http://catseye.tc/projects/befunge93/eg/mandel.bf
linked to from
http://catseye.tc/projects/befunge93/eg/INDEX.html
?
Tom
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Tom York <alp### [at] zubenelgenubi34spcom> wrote:
> What about
> http://catseye.tc/projects/befunge93/eg/mandel.bf
Not much of a help trying to know how to implement it, as you can see...
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> Tom York <alp### [at] zubenelgenubi34spcom> wrote:
>> What about
>
>> http://catseye.tc/projects/befunge93/eg/mandel.bf
>
> Not much of a help trying to know how to implement it, as you can see...
OK. I want to see a befunge program that looks like a mandelbrot that
generates a mandelbrot. :)
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Remember the good old days, when we
used to complain about cryptography
being export-restricted?
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Since Befunge seems to support random-access storage with the "p" and
"g" commands, I'd imagine that it should indeed be Turing complete
(otherwise, completely without any sort of proof, I suspect that it
would be equivalent to a pushdown automata).
Looking at the program Tom linked, it seems to make pretty heavy use of
these commands. I can imagine it was a monstrous pain to write though.
Anything in particular that inspired you to give it a shot, or did it
just seem like an interesting puzzle?
Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> Out of curiousity, what kind of language or machine is this?
>
> Befunge.
>
> I tried to create a mandelbrot generator with it. Failed.
>
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Kevin Wampler <wampler+pov### [at] uwashingtonedu> wrote:
> Since Befunge seems to support random-access storage with the "p" and
> "g" commands
The problem is that those support only putting and getting a character.
To calculate the mandelbrot set with integers you need to handle pretty
large integral values.
Ok, maybe it's possible to split a large integer into characters by
doing divisions and modulos (and multiplications and additions when reading),
but it becomes extremely cumbersome, especially with befunge (which, as far
as I can tell, doesn't support the concept of a subroutine, unless theres
a really clever way of emulating them).
If befunge had just one extra command: "copy the nth value in the stack
to the top of the stack", everything would become much easier.
Well, I suppose the purpose of this language is not to be easy to use. :P
> Anything in particular that inspired you to give it a shot, or did it
> just seem like an interesting puzzle?
I wanted to try a completely different programming language, for fun.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> but it becomes extremely cumbersome,
It's pretty f'ing tedious with a three-color turing machine, too. :-)
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Remember the good old days, when we
used to complain about cryptography
being export-restricted?
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> > but it becomes extremely cumbersome,
> It's pretty f'ing tedious with a three-color turing machine, too. :-)
The Thue programming language actually looks like an interesting concept.
Perhaps I will try to make a mandelbrot generator with it.
From what I see, you really need to start from the very basics, by
defining things like binary addition and multiplication...
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> I wanted to try a completely different programming language, for fun.
I admire your dedication to it, I think Befunge would push my patience
beyond its limits for anything much beyond "hello world".
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