d
Hamilton only one point behind!

-- Arttu "Blizzara" Voutilainen

	-- http://www.zbxt.net/~blizzara/

		-- antilzah.deviantart.com

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No, Gail won.

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> Hamilton only one point behind!

Yep, closest season for a long time.  Silly mistakes by both Alonso and 
Hamilton over the last few races which cost them both the championship. 
Still, if they had won there would always be doubt after they were caught 
spying on Ferrari...

Do you think that Massa's small mistake before the 2nd pit-stop was 
intentional to allow Kimi to pass in the pits?

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And lo on Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:43:24 +0100, scott <sco### [at] laptopcom> did  
spake, saying:


>> Hamilton only one point behind!
>
> Yep, closest season for a long time.  Silly mistakes by both Alonso and  
> Hamilton over the last few races which cost them both the championship.  
> Still, if they had won there would always be doubt after they were  
> caught spying on Ferrari...
>
> Do you think that Massa's small mistake before the 2nd pit-stop was  
> intentional to allow Kimi to pass in the pits?

Is this the one with the row about fuel temperatures? I don't know first  
the Rugby and now this.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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> Is this the one with the row about fuel temperatures? I don't know first 
> the Rugby and now this.

Hehe yeh, apparently two other teams pumped in their fuel at less than 10 
degrees below ambient, which is not allowed.  But the FIA decided not to 
disqualify the drivers as the advantage gained would have been less than 1 
second over the race and likely not changed the outcome.  Disqualifying the 
teams would have meant a different world champion though...

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And lo on Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:10:41 +0100, scott <sco### [at] laptopcom> did  
spake, saying:

>> Is this the one with the row about fuel temperatures? I don't know  
>> first the Rugby and now this.
>
> Hehe yeh, apparently two other teams pumped in their fuel at less than  
> 10 degrees below ambient, which is not allowed.  But the FIA decided not  
> to disqualify the drivers as the advantage gained would have been less  
> than 1 second over the race and likely not changed the outcome.   
> Disqualifying the teams would have meant a different world champion  
> though...

IOW they broke the rules, and got caught, but the advantage they gained  
was deemed inconsequential to their win; so that's okay then. Wag that  
finger and tell them not to do it again - pfft.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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>>> Is this the one with the row about fuel temperatures? I don't know 
>>> first the Rugby and now this.
>>
>> Hehe yeh, apparently two other teams pumped in their fuel at less than 
>> 10 degrees below ambient, which is not allowed.  But the FIA decided not 
>> to disqualify the drivers as the advantage gained would have been less 
>> than 1 second over the race and likely not changed the outcome. 
>> Disqualifying the teams would have meant a different world champion 
>> though...
>
> IOW they broke the rules, and got caught, but the advantage they gained 
> was deemed inconsequential to their win; so that's okay then. Wag that 
> finger and tell them not to do it again - pfft.

Well the official report was that they were not punished because the fuel 
temperature could not be proved.

But the funny bit is that McLaren are presumably asking for the teams 
concerned to be punished and have their drivers points taken away.  This is 
the McLaren who had all their team points taken away and narrowly avoided 
having all their driver points taken away too... they should be careful.

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And lo on Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:57:49 +0100, scott <sco### [at] laptopcom> did  
spake, saying:

>>>> Is this the one with the row about fuel temperatures? I don't know  
>>>> first the Rugby and now this.
>>>
>>> Hehe yeh, apparently two other teams pumped in their fuel at less than  
>>> 10 degrees below ambient, which is not allowed.  But the FIA decided  
>>> not to disqualify the drivers as the advantage gained would have been  
>>> less than 1 second over the race and likely not changed the outcome.  
>>> Disqualifying the teams would have meant a different world champion  
>>> though...
>>
>> IOW they broke the rules, and got caught, but the advantage they gained  
>> was deemed inconsequential to their win; so that's okay then. Wag that  
>> finger and tell them not to do it again - pfft.
>
> Well the official report was that they were not punished because the  
> fuel temperature could not be proved.

Wasn't it at a lower temperature they could get more fuel into the tank?  
Don't they keep a record of how much fuel is put in and then compare it to  
the tank capacity? I mean if at X degrees the tank will hold Y and at X-10  
it'll hold Z, bit of a smoking gun if they stuck Z in there.

> But the funny bit is that McLaren are presumably asking for the teams  
> concerned to be punished and have their drivers points taken away.  This  
> is the McLaren who had all their team points taken away and narrowly  
> avoided having all their driver points taken away too... they should be  
> careful.

Sounds like a 'why did we get hit and not them?'

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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>> Well the official report was that they were not punished because the 
>> fuel temperature could not be proved.
>
> Wasn't it at a lower temperature they could get more fuel into the tank?

No.

> Don't they keep a record of how much fuel is put in and then compare it to 
> the tank capacity? I mean if at X degrees the tank will hold Y and at X-10 
> it'll hold Z, bit of a smoking gun if they stuck Z in there.

This assumes the tank is filled to the brim - which it hardly ever is.  Most 
drivers made 2 or 3 stops during the race, IIRC most cars can do about 
60-70% race distance when filled right to the brim with fuel.

The main reasons for doing it are to speed up the refilling process and the 
engine also develops slightly more power on lower temperature fuel - but 
this effect is only for a lap or two before the fuel heats up to ambient 
temperature.

I don't know where the quoted temperature measurements come from, but 
presumably they were not reliable or accurate enough to actually make a 
disqualification.

>> But the funny bit is that McLaren are presumably asking for the teams 
>> concerned to be punished and have their drivers points taken away.  This 
>> is the McLaren who had all their team points taken away and narrowly 
>> avoided having all their driver points taken away too... they should be 
>> careful.
>
> Sounds like a 'why did we get hit and not them?'

But McLaren only got team points, not driver points, taken away for a much 
more serious offence.  They are campaigning to get driver points taken away 
from yesterdays race (so they can win the drivers championship), seems silly 
when they narrowly missed having drivers points taken away from their own 
team...

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