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From: Laurence H Smith
Subject: Eagle 3D File will not render
Date: 2 Mar 2007 19:01:24
Message: <0001HW.C20DB483000C4854F0203648@news.povray.org>
I have produced a .pov file from an Eagle circuit board file and I am trying 
to Render it in Pov-Ray for Mac OS X 3.6.0. Here is what is happening: 

	I double clicked the .pov file and it launches POV-RAY just fine

	The spinning beach ball stays on for about 10 minutes and finally shows me 
the file.

I select Render and the spinning beach ball stays on for about 10 minutes.

I get a progress screen for Rendering, which it takes about 1.5 hours to 
finish, but nothing shows up.

Move the same file over a PC and ran the file. Loaded in less the 5 seconds, 
Rendered at low Res. in less than 20 seconds.

What am I doing wrong?


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From: Thorsten Froehlich
Subject: Re: Eagle 3D File will not render
Date: 2 Mar 2007 19:48:02
Message: <45e87f72@news.povray.org>
Laurence H Smith wrote:
> I get a progress screen for Rendering, which it takes about 1.5 hours to 
> finish, but nothing shows up.

So you turned preview off? There must have been some messages that told you 
what happened and where the file was saved...

> Move the same file over a PC and ran the file. Loaded in less the 5 seconds, 
> Rendered at low Res. in less than 20 seconds.
> 
> What am I doing wrong?

The Mac doesn't have enough memory to load the file, so it has to swap. At 
least that is the most likely guess. -- You did not provide enough useful 
information for anybody to provide you with any help that will actually help 
you. One can only guess...

	Thorsten


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From: Laurence H Smith
Subject: Re: Eagle 3D File will not render
Date: 3 Mar 2007 19:30:05
Message: <0001HW.C20F0CBE000401ECF0182648@news.povray.org>
On Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:47:58 -0800, Thorsten Froehlich wrote
(in article <45e87f72@news.povray.org>):

> Laurence H Smith wrote:
>> I get a progress screen for Rendering, which it takes about 1.5 hours to 
>> finish, but nothing shows up.
> 
> So you turned preview off? There must have been some messages that told you 
> what happened and where the file was saved...

Unless preview is set to OFF by default, I didn't turn it off. There was no 
message that I could find and I searched my Hard Drive and could not find the 
file with that name.
> 
>> Move the same file over a PC and ran the file. Loaded in less the 5 
>> seconds, 
>> Rendered at low Res. in less than 20 seconds.
>> 
>> What am I doing wrong?
> 
> The Mac doesn't have enough memory to load the file, so it has to swap. At 
> least that is the most likely guess. -- You did not provide enough useful 
> information for anybody to provide you with any help that will actually help 
> you. One can only guess...
> 
> 	Thorsten

I am guessing you need more information about my computer. It is a 17" 
PowerBook G4. 
  CPU Type:	PowerPC G4 (1.5)
  Number Of CPUs:	1
  CPU Speed:	1.67 GHz
  L2 Cache (per CPU):	512 KB
  Memory:	2 GB
  Bus Speed:	167 MHz
  Boot ROM Version:	4.9.6f0

The file Micro.pov is 388 KB. It took 13 minutes and 38 seconds to load. I 
didn't try to Render because I didn't want to wait another 1.5 hours to find 
out it didn't work.

In the preferences for POV-RAY under "Scenes", I added "Macintosh 
HD:Applications:POV-RAY:Include:" This is the only thing that shows up in 
Scenes.

Could you use more information?


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From: Tiger
Subject: Re: Eagle 3D File will not render
Date: 10 Sep 2007 17:37:30
Message: <46e580da$1@news.povray.org>
On 02-03-07 20:01, Laurence H Smith wrote:
> I have produced a .pov file from an Eagle circuit board file and I am trying 
> to Render it in Pov-Ray for Mac OS X 3.6.0. Here is what is happening: 
> 
> 	I double clicked the .pov file and it launches POV-RAY just fine
> 
> 	The spinning beach ball stays on for about 10 minutes and finally shows me 
> the file.
> 
> I select Render and the spinning beach ball stays on for about 10 minutes.

I'm on a Mac as well and experience much of the same thing as you.
I haven't waited 10 minutes though, but as soon as I load the POV file 
into POVray (http://mac.povray.org/) the beachball starts to spin.
If I press ALT-CMD I can see that POVray "not responding", so I do a 
force quit.
The strange thing is that the beachball starts to spin as soon as I 
*open* the POV file, not because I've chosen "render"!!??!?!?!
Very strange.

And yes, I've taken care to define the path to Eagle 3D's "POVray" 
folder (by going to POVray's "Edit"-"Preference"-"Scenes" menu.

Now even stranger is the fact that the above happens only when I open 
the file by going to POVray's "File"-"Open" menu, but then only if I 
choose "All documents". If the file-selector's choices are set to any of 
the other choices (POVray documents etc.) the POV files are greyed out, 
making them unselectable!

However, if the Eagle 3D POVray folder isn't defined I don't get the 
spinning beachball, but an error message about not finding the files in 
that folder.


Seeing that I didn't have much success with POVray I came across and 
decided to try out MegaPOV (http://megapov.inetart.net/).

Like with POVray I had to define the path to Eagle 3D's "POVray" folder.
It's a little confusing because it seems like this can be done in one of 
two places:
"MegaPOV"-"Preferences"-"System includes"
or
"Window"-"Render preferences"-"Files & paths"-"Set search paths for 
additional include files"

In any case, when opening the POV file I don't end up with a spinning 
beachball (and "not responding") as with POVray, but whenever I try to 
render ("Render"-"Render" menu) I get a bunch of different error 
messages such as:

-------------------------
Line: 38
File Context (5 lines):
#declare col_preset = 2;
#declare pin_short = on;
#declare environment
Parse Error: Expected 'undeclared identifier', environment found instead
-------------------------


or:
-------------------------
Parse Error: Illegal character in input file, value is 02
-------------------------


So no success so far on my Mac (PowerBook G4 (1.67GHz), MacOS 10.4.10, 
1.5Gbytes RAM).


Next, since I'm an Eagle novice and have never used neither Eagle 3D nor 
POVray, I decided to see if I got into the same problems when running it 
on a Windows PC.

Once having installed both Eagle 3D and POVray on the PC I transferred 
my previously made POV files (with Eagle 3D on my Mac) over to the PC, 
then tried to render them with POVray. Worked right away!
And I had deliberately chosen a very simple board, in order to make the 
rendering process fast. It took about 5 seconds to do (and this is on a 
5 year old Pentium 4, 1.9GHz, 256Mbytes RAM which is a lot less powerful 
than my Powerbook).
So I don't think processing power has anything to do with these issues.

I've tried several different POV files generated with my Mac, and they 
all rendered perfectly on the PC.
And of course POV files generated with Eagle 3D in Eagle on the PC work 
fine as well.

All this tells me that either there's a problem with POVray/MegaPOV on 
my Mac, or that the POV files aren't cross-platform compatible (even 
though the files were created on the Mac the same ULP script file as 
with the PC has been used).

It would be very interesting to try other POV files than the ones I've 
made with Eagle 3D myself, created by both PCs and Macs.
Are there any such files available for download somewhere?


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From: Thorsten Froehlich
Subject: Re: Eagle 3D File will not render
Date: 10 Sep 2007 19:13:05
Message: <46e59741$1@news.povray.org>
Tiger wrote:
> I've tried several different POV files generated with my Mac, and they
> all rendered perfectly on the PC.

Somehow this sounds like the files have DOS style line endings, which would
of course confuse POV-Ray on a Mac, but not on Windows. It would also
explain why the Mac editor has problems opening the file, as it may not
actually have proper line endings the editor might go into putting
everything in one line, which makes it rather slow, which in turn would
explain why POV-Ray *appears* to be hanging when trying to open the file.

	Thorsten, POV-Team


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From: Tiger
Subject: Re: Eagle 3D File will not render
Date: 10 Sep 2007 19:54:38
Message: <46e5a0fe$1@news.povray.org>
On 10-09-07 21:13, Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> Tiger wrote:
>> I've tried several different POV files generated with my Mac, and they
>> all rendered perfectly on the PC.
> 
> Somehow this sounds like the files have DOS style line endings, which would
> of course confuse POV-Ray on a Mac, but not on Windows.

I wish it was that easy, but I've tried changing the line-endings as 
well as the character sets, but it made no difference.

What would be really helpful for me in continuing my troubleshooting 
would be to see if I can get POVray to work at all!
Are there any websites where I can download .POV files that are sure to 
work on a Mac (perhaps they've been created on a Mac)?


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From: Thorsten Froehlich
Subject: Re: Eagle 3D File will not render
Date: 10 Sep 2007 21:01:02
Message: <46e5b08e$1@news.povray.org>
Tiger wrote:
> What would be really helpful for me in continuing my troubleshooting
> would be to see if I can get POVray to work at all!
> Are there any websites where I can download .POV files that are sure to
> work on a Mac (perhaps they've been created on a Mac)?

The Mac version, like all official versions of POV-Ray, comes with samples
scenes.

	Thorsten


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From: Tiger
Subject: Re: Eagle 3D File will not render
Date: 10 Sep 2007 22:04:49
Message: <46e5bf81$1@news.povray.org>
On 10-09-07 23:01, Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> Tiger wrote:

>> Are there any websites where I can download .POV files that are sure to
>> work on a Mac (perhaps they've been created on a Mac)?
> 
> The Mac version, like all official versions of POV-Ray, comes with samples
> scenes.

You're right. I just didn't know that .POV files are also known as "scenes".
Good news -those POV files work fine on my Mac, so at least I know that 
POVray on my Mac is configured properly and works :-)

I'm still looking at the POV files I have from Eagle 3D, but haven't 
figured it out yet.
I do notice that my (Eagle 3D generated) POV files are greyed out in the 
POVray file-selector when trying to open them while the ones from the 
"scenes" folder that came with POVray aren't greyed out, but are selectable.

So, using a text editor I tried to copy the entire text contents of the 
working POV file (a file I found in the "scenes" folder). That way I'll 
know that the actual data is correct, but even though I've tried just 
about every combination of line-ending and character set I can't get it 
to become un-greyed in the POVray file-selector.
Any ideas?


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From: Thorsten Froehlich
Subject: Re: Eagle 3D File will not render
Date: 10 Sep 2007 22:39:38
Message: <46e5c7aa$1@news.povray.org>
Tiger wrote:
> So, using a text editor I tried to copy the entire text contents of the
> working POV file (a file I found in the "scenes" folder). That way I'll
> know that the actual data is correct,

So do the files work then? Or do you at least get an error message of some kind?

> but even though I've tried just
> about every combination of line-ending and character set I can't get it
> to become un-greyed in the POVray file-selector.

The files being grayed-out has nothing to do with the contents of the files.
It is just an artifact of the way they were created - recall that Eagle is
an X11 application rather than a truly native Mac application (well, the
Eagle 5.0 betas are actually native Mac applications, but that is another
story). So just don't worry about files being grayed-out by default.

	Thorsten


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From: Tiger
Subject: Re: Eagle 3D File will not render
Date: 11 Sep 2007 18:13:50
Message: <46e6dade$1@news.povray.org>
On 11-09-07 00:39, Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> Tiger wrote:

>> about every combination of line-ending and character set I can't get it
>> to become un-greyed in the POVray file-selector.
> 
> The files being grayed-out has nothing to do with the contents of the files.
> It is just an artifact of the way they were created - recall that Eagle is
> an X11 application rather than a truly native Mac application (well, the
> Eagle 5.0 betas are actually native Mac applications, but that is another
> story). So just don't worry about files being grayed-out by default.

OK, I'll leave that for now.
All this testing has left me quite confused, so I've done it all again.
Since MegaPOV seems more forgiving with "problem files" than POVray on 
the Mac (the latter just freezes when it encounters problematic POV 
files while MegaPOV just gives me error messages) I decided to try them 
both out with my files.

TEST #1
-------
First, I tested "bezier.pov" (from Mac-POVray's "scenes" folder).
* POVray (Mac)	: worked OK
* MegaPOV (Mac)	: worked OK
* POVray (Windows): worked OK


TEST #2
-------
Next, (using Eagle and Eagle 3D on the Mac) I created a very simple 
circuit board which I made a POV file from:
* POVray (Mac)	: opening the file freezes POVray (I need to "force-quit" 
in order to exit)

* MegaPOV (Mac)	: error message shows up when trying to render:
-----------------------------------------------------
File: /Users/Tiger/Desktop/From Mac/Eagle 3D (Mac) 
created/mac_eagle3d.pov  Line: 42
File Context (5 lines):
#declare col_preset = 2;
#declare pin_short = on;
#declare environment
Parse Error: Expected 'undeclared identifier', environment found instead
-----------------------------------------------------

* POVray (Windows): worked OK


TEST #3
-------
Finally, I took the very same file that I had created with Eagle/Eagle 
3D on the Mac (above, in test #2), opened it with Eagle on the PC, did 
some very minor changes (just moved some circuit traces ever so slightly 
so as to tell Eagle I had made changes), saved the file and created a 
POV file with Eagle 3D (Windows):
* POVray (Mac)	: opening the file freezes POVray (I need to "force-quit" 
in order to exit)

* MegaPOV (Mac)	:
----------------------------------------------------
File: /Users/Tiger/Desktop/From PC/Mac created, opened and edited on 
PC/mac_eagle3d.pov  Line: 42
File Context (5 lines):

#declare environment
Parse Error: Expected 'undeclared identifier', environment found instead
----------------------------------------------------

* POVray (Windows): worked OK


I suspect Eagle 3D saving the POV files in a specific format which 
Mac-POVray can't use. We really should analyze the above files somehow, 
to compare them with each other, but I really don't know where to start.
Suggestions? I could upload the test-files if anyone is interested in 
looking at them.


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