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From: Ger
Subject: Re: From <1 second Rendertime to >1 hr just by adding AA 0.3
Date: 3 Jan 2016 19:47:31
Message: <5689c123$1@news.povray.org>
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Theogott wrote:
>
> union{
> blob{
> sphere{
> <-1,0,0> 1.5 2
> pigment{
> checker
> rgb 0
> rgb .2
> scale 0.25
> }
> finish{
> reflection <1,1,1.1>
> }
> }
> sphere{
> <1,0,0> 1.5 2
> pigment{
> checker
> rgb 0
> rgb .2
> scale 0.25
> }
> finish{
> reflection <1.1,1,1>
> }
> }
> }
> scale 1.5
> }
>
This can be compacted to
blob{
sphere{ <-1,0,0> 1.5 2 }
sphere{ <1,0,0> 1.5 2 }
pigment{
checker
rgb 0
rgb .2
scale 0.25
}
finish{
reflection <1,1,1.1>
}
scale 1.5
}
> sphere{
> <0,0,0>
> 100
> hollow
> pigment{
> color <0,0,0,0,0.01>
> }
> finish{
> reflection 1
> }
> normal{
> bumps 0.0001
> }
> }
This second enveloping sphere is what kills it.
If I take it out it renders, with +A0.01 at 800x450 in under 20 seconds
--
Ger
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From: clipka
Subject: Re: From <1 second Rendertime to >1 hr just by adding AA 0.3
Date: 3 Jan 2016 20:55:13
Message: <5689d101$1@news.povray.org>
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Am 03.01.2016 um 23:09 schrieb Theogott:
> This is a funny thing. We all know that AA takes time. But sooo much?
>
> The scene below renders <1 Second here, without AA.
> If i turn on AA 0.3, it renders ... forever ... ~1 hr.
Not sure what brutish computer you have at your disposal, but even
without AA I don't see render times anywhere close to 1s here. More like
a bit under 4 minutes with POV-Ray 3.6.
For some reason, POV-Ray 3.7 seems to grind to a halt -- possibly
because its handling of max_trace_level with regards to fully
transparent surfaces is different.
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clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> Am 03.01.2016 um 23:09 schrieb Theogott:
> > This is a funny thing. We all know that AA takes time. But sooo much?
> >
> > The scene below renders <1 Second here, without AA.
> > If i turn on AA 0.3, it renders ... forever ... ~1 hr.
>
> Not sure what brutish computer you have at your disposal, but even
> without AA I don't see render times anywhere close to 1s here. More like
> a bit under 4 minutes with POV-Ray 3.6.
>
> For some reason, POV-Ray 3.7 seems to grind to a halt -- possibly
> because its handling of max_trace_level with regards to fully
> transparent surfaces is different.
-----------------------
Parse Warning: Should have at least 2 objects in csg.
Parse Warning: assumed_gamma not specified, so gamma_correction is turned off
for
compatibility with this pre POV-Ray 3.7 scene. See the documentation for more
details.
Parser Statistics
Finite Objects: 3
Infinite Objects: 1
Light Sources: 1
Total: 5
Parser Time
Parse Time: 0 hours 0 minutes 0 seconds (0.001 seconds)
using 1 thread(s) with 0.000 CPU-seconds total
Bounding Time: 0 hours 0 minutes 0 seconds (0.000 seconds)
using 1 thread(s) with 0.000 CPU-seconds total
Render Options
Quality: 5
Bounding boxes.......On Bounding threshold: 3
Antialiasing.........Off
Render Statistics
Image Resolution 800 x 600
Pixels: 480000 Samples: 0 Smpls/Pxl: 0.00
Rays: 480000 Saved: 0 Max Level: 1/12
Ray->Shape Intersection Tests Succeeded Percentage
Blob 756184 160540 21.23
Blob Component 725676 721440 99.42
Blob Bound 1512368 725676 47.98
Plane 960000 480000 50.00
Sphere 1920000 1920000 100.00
Bounding Box 2880000 2676184 92.92
Roots tested: 399688 eliminated: 105053
Shadow Ray Tests: 480000 Succeeded: 0
Peak memory used: 47685632 bytes
Render Time:
Photon Time: No photons
Radiosity Time: No radiosity
Trace Time: 0 hours 0 minutes 0 seconds (0.275 seconds)
using 12 thread(s) with 2.335 CPU-seconds total
UberPOV finished
-
CPU time used: kernel 0.14 seconds, user 2.56 seconds, total 2.70 seconds.
Elapsed time 0.93 seconds, CPU vs elapsed time ratio 2.92.
Render averaged 518918.92 PPS (177855.70 PPS CPU time) over 480000 pixels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
There seems to be a huge Difference in Rendertime between Uber-POV and POV-Ray.
WHY?
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clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> For some reason, POV-Ray 3.7 seems to grind to a halt -- possibly
> because its handling of max_trace_level with regards to fully
> transparent surfaces is different.
This explains many issues I've with old scenes.
Please can you explain it a bit more in depth?
Norbert
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From: clipka
Subject: Re: From <1 second Rendertime to >1 hr just by adding AA 0.3
Date: 4 Jan 2016 04:31:47
Message: <568a3c03$1@news.povray.org>
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Am 04.01.2016 um 07:55 schrieb Theogott:
> clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>> Am 03.01.2016 um 23:09 schrieb Theogott:
>>> This is a funny thing. We all know that AA takes time. But sooo much?
>>>
>>> The scene below renders <1 Second here, without AA.
>>> If i turn on AA 0.3, it renders ... forever ... ~1 hr.
>>
>> Not sure what brutish computer you have at your disposal, but even
>> without AA I don't see render times anywhere close to 1s here. More like
>> a bit under 4 minutes with POV-Ray 3.6.
>>
>> For some reason, POV-Ray 3.7 seems to grind to a halt -- possibly
>> because its handling of max_trace_level with regards to fully
>> transparent surfaces is different.
...
> Render Options
> Quality: 5
Ah - now THAT does make a difference!
Running with the "+Q5" command-line option, I get 1s render time, too.
But even then activating AA doesn't change the render times drastically.
> UberPOV finished
You didn't mention that fact either.
> There seems to be a huge Difference in Rendertime between Uber-POV and POV-Ray.
> WHY?
Is there? I don't see any. Not with identical command-line settings, at
any rate.
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From: clipka
Subject: Re: From <1 second Rendertime to >1 hr just by adding AA 0.3
Date: 4 Jan 2016 04:36:55
Message: <568a3d37@news.povray.org>
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Am 04.01.2016 um 10:06 schrieb Norbert Kern:
> clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>
>> For some reason, POV-Ray 3.7 seems to grind to a halt -- possibly
>> because its handling of max_trace_level with regards to fully
>> transparent surfaces is different.
>
> This explains many issues I've with old scenes.
> Please can you explain it a bit more in depth?
Transparency without refraction doesn't count towards the
max_trace_level anymore.
I begin to wonder whether that was a bad idea though.
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From: William F Pokorny
Subject: Re: From <1 second Rendertime to >1 hr just by adding AA 0.3
Date: 4 Jan 2016 09:32:09
Message: <568a8269$1@news.povray.org>
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On 01/04/2016 04:36 AM, clipka wrote:
> Am 04.01.2016 um 10:06 schrieb Norbert Kern:
>> clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>>
>>> For some reason, POV-Ray 3.7 seems to grind to a halt -- possibly
>>> because its handling of max_trace_level with regards to fully
>>> transparent surfaces is different.
>>
>> This explains many issues I've with old scenes.
>> Please can you explain it a bit more in depth?
>
> Transparency without refraction doesn't count towards the
> max_trace_level anymore.
>
> I begin to wonder whether that was a bad idea though.
>
(I've been looking at old blob problems with the blob.cpp code I
patched, so jumping on thread as this too is a blob scene.)
In addition to performance the image results are also different 3.6 to
3.7. See: PrfrmDiff36to37.jpg in povray.binaries.images.
--------------------------- (Left image in PrfrmDiff36to37.jpg)
povray3.6 no AA
Rays: 444152349 Saved: 70439961 Max Level: 12/12
(298 seconds)
--------------------------- (Center image in PrfrmDiff36to37.jpg)
povray3.7StableBlobPatched no AA
Rays: 13058131391 Saved: 2261510214 Max Level: 12/12
15200.163 CPU-seconds total
--------------------------- (Right image in PrfrmDiff36to37.jpg)
povray3.7StableBlobPatched no AA. All reflections*0.5
Rays: 279110752 Saved: 136920694 Max Level: 10/12
370.471 CPU-seconds total
---------------------------
The right result I believe is evidence for the 3.6->3.7 transmission
change Christoph suspects.
Note that reflections >=1 are being used with transmission ==1 in the
original code so we are getting light amplification on reflection.
---
I also made 3.6 and 3.7 runs with conserve_energy on and performance &
results were similar though not identical. See: conserve_energy.jpg in
povray.binaries.images.
--------------------------- (conserve_energy.jpg)
povray3.7StableBlobPatched no AA conserve_energy in finish blocks
Rays: 13058131391 Saved: 2261510214 Max Level: 12/12
15200.163 CPU-seconds total
---------------------------
The conserve energy result is likely too evidence for the 3.6->3.7
transmission change.
To echo what Norbert suspects, I too have seen different results
3.6->3.7 where previous code uses values >1.0 in the finish block
control elements. I've never quite sorted things enough to really
understand it. Now thinking the transmission change is a part of it. My
fix is to rework for ranges<=1 in the finish block.
Question: I think the conserve_energy helps & turns the background dark
because we cannot both reflect at >=1 and transmit at >=1. In other
words, we don't see through the r=30 sphere to the plane with the
granite pigment. Is this understanding correct?
Bill P.
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From: William F Pokorny
Subject: Re: From <1 second Rendertime to >1 hr just by adding AA 0.3
Date: 4 Jan 2016 09:41:23
Message: <568a8493$1@news.povray.org>
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On 01/04/2016 09:32 AM, William F Pokorny wrote:
> ...
> --------------------------- (conserve_energy.jpg)
> povray3.7StableBlobPatched no AA conserve_energy in finish blocks
> Rays: 13058131391 Saved: 2261510214 Max Level: 12/12
> 15200.163 CPU-seconds total
> ---------------------------
>
Dang. Why is it I only see my mistakes once the post shows up on the
news group... I pasted the wrong results in the conserve_energy example.
They were:
--------------------------- (conserve_energy.jpg)
povray3.7StableBlobPatched no AA conserve_energy in finish blocks
Rays: 454713414 Saved: 128774772 Max Level: 12/12
732.143 CPU-seconds total
---------------------------
The time was reasonable in 3.6 and 3.7 using conserve_energy in the
finish block.
Bill P.
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William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> Question: I think the conserve_energy helps & turns the background dark
> because we cannot both reflect at >=1 and transmit at >=1. In other
> words, we don't see through the r=30 sphere to the plane with the
> granite pigment. Is this understanding correct?
To be precise, conserve_energy ensures that transmission is attenuated in
accordance with variable reflection, so that as effective reflection increases,
the effective transmission decreases accordingly. If transmission is set to 1
and reflection is set to 0 and 1 (min and max, respectively), then the effective
transmission plus effective reflection will be kept constant at 1. (Filter, too,
is subject to the same level of attenuation.)
In mathematical terms, given variable reflection with values REFL_MIN and
REFL_MAX, and transmit and filter set to TRANS and FILTER respectively, the
effective reflection, transmission and filter will be
REFL_EFF = x * (REFL_MAX - REFL_MIN) + REFL_MIN
TRANS_EFF = (1-x) * TRANS
FILTER_EFF = (1-x) * FILTER
where x depends on the angle at which we are looking at the surface.
You could also say that using conserve_energy makes variable reflection blend
between reflection and transmission/fiter, rather than just varying the
reflection component.
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Aaah ok, since i changed the size of the letters on my screen i can not see the
right side of the pull-down menu any more.
Now that you say it ... Q5 is the reason. Ok, that makes sense.
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