> 
>>     - Registration will capture home address and phone number
>>
> Home address?
> Hm, I'm affraid, this can hold back people from registering...
> 
>> David Buck
> 
> Slawek

You are registering in order to be able to submit images.  My impression 
from the feedback here (especially from Chris Cason) is that he really 
wants to know who submitted the images and is able to contact them later 
for permission for third party use of the images and other things.

I realize that home address and phone number aren't guaranteed to be 
able to locate someone, but it's better than just an e-mail address.

Again, I'll throw the question back.  If you feel that asking for 
contact information would hold people back from registering, what do you 
propose as an alternative?

I'm trying to address two concerns here.  First, for the purposes of 
using the images outside the scope of the IRTC such as CD-ROMS and 
requests from third parties, we need to be able to contact the artists. 
  If we can't contact the artist, then we can't grant certain requests.

Second, by providing better contact information, it becomes more 
difficult (but certainly not impossible) for someone to spam the contest 
with entries from fake identities.  It's easy to get e-mail addresses. 
Someone could submit 10 images (perhaps poor quality or token 
submissions) to 3 contests using fake e-mail addresses for each then get 
30 votes for the next rounds.

Positive suggestions on how to address these concerns would help us out.

Thanks
David Buck

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Given the caliber of the people involved in this project, this comment is

the time to make it anyway.  Some of the private information that I provided to
the old IRTC and TC-RTC in the understanding that it would be used privately by
the Admins now turns up on a Google search for anyone to read. If my address
and phone number were to similarly be put out in the open for public viewing, I
would be quite displeased.  Explicit assurances in this regard would be

Admin use only because experience with the people involved has given me reason
to trust them.  If I had just stumbled upon the IRTC anew and was told that
giving out my address and phone number were conditions for participating, I
would very likely suspect the worst and decline to enter.  Please consider
requiring just a valid email address with a stipulation that if one wins
anything, a physical address to which the prize is to be sent must be provided
to the Admins within X number of days or the prize is forfeit.

Best Regards,
Mike C.

Post a reply to this message

BOFH excuse 156: Zombie processes haunting David Buck
> Again, I'll throw the question back.  If you feel that asking for 
> contact information would hold people back from registering, what do you 
> propose as an alternative?
>
Confirmed e-mail.
And possibility to fill remaining data up when needed (prizes, shopping etc.)

> I'm trying to address two concerns here.  First, for the purposes of 
> using the images outside the scope of the IRTC such as CD-ROMS and 
> requests from third parties, we need to be able to contact the artists. 
>   If we can't contact the artist, then we can't grant certain requests.
>
Sure. But there is no easy way to confirm snail mail (well, you can send me
a postcard, of course, and wait for answer ;)
Phone number can be easy confirmed... but this can cost a plenty.

> Second, by providing better contact information, it becomes more 
> difficult (but certainly not impossible) for someone to spam the contest 
> with entries from fake identities.  It's easy to get e-mail addresses. 
>
It's easy to take a fake 'home address'.

> Someone could submit 10 images (perhaps poor quality or token 
> submissions) to 3 contests using fake e-mail addresses for each then get 
> 30 votes for the next rounds.
>
I can wrote 10 real 'street addresses' in no time.
Working phone number costs me between $0 (voip) and $2.5 (gsm,voip)...

> David Buck

Slawek
-- 
  ________ 
_/ __/ __/ []to taki wiesz... telnet... taki prymitywny outlook:P - Kanusia
 \__ \__ \_______________________________________________________________

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> I could certainly go for this proposal.  It doesn't reduce click time 
> (one box vs. one star) but it could make the voting easier.

And a checkbox is even easier since I can click anywhere on the text 
too. You *will* use <label>, won't you? >:)

Post a reply to this message

> BOFH excuse 156: Zombie processes haunting David Buck
>> Again, I'll throw the question back.  If you feel that asking for 
>> contact information would hold people back from registering, what do you 
>> propose as an alternative?
>>
> Confirmed e-mail.
> And possibility to fill remaining data up when needed (prizes, shopping etc.)
> 
>> I'm trying to address two concerns here.  First, for the purposes of 
>> using the images outside the scope of the IRTC such as CD-ROMS and 
>> requests from third parties, we need to be able to contact the artists. 
>>   If we can't contact the artist, then we can't grant certain requests.
>>
> Sure. But there is no easy way to confirm snail mail (well, you can send me
> a postcard, of course, and wait for answer ;)
> Phone number can be easy confirmed... but this can cost a plenty.
> 
>> Second, by providing better contact information, it becomes more 
>> difficult (but certainly not impossible) for someone to spam the contest 
>> with entries from fake identities.  It's easy to get e-mail addresses. 
>>
> It's easy to take a fake 'home address'.
> 
>> Someone could submit 10 images (perhaps poor quality or token 
>> submissions) to 3 contests using fake e-mail addresses for each then get 
>> 30 votes for the next rounds.
>>
> I can wrote 10 real 'street addresses' in no time.
> Working phone number costs me between $0 (voip) and $2.5 (gsm,voip)...
> 
>> David Buck
> 
> Slawek


Ok, I can make the home address and phone numbers optional and only 
require an e-mail confirmation.  When you register, you will receive an 
account that would allow you to update this information or remove this 
information any time you like.  Changing it later shouldn't be a problem.

I will, however, include a check box (or a few options) to say that you 
approve the use of this image in the IRTC CD-ROM and/or interested third 
parties.

Thanks again for the constructive feedback.

David

Post a reply to this message

"David Buck" <dav### [at] simberoncom> schreef in bericht 
news:47d6a4ec$1@news.povray.org...

>
> Ok, I can make the home address and phone numbers optional and only 
> require an e-mail confirmation.  When you register, you will receive an 
> account that would allow you to update this information or remove this 
> information any time you like.  Changing it later shouldn't be a problem.
>
> I will, however, include a check box (or a few options) to say that you 
> approve the use of this image in the IRTC CD-ROM and/or interested third 
> parties.
>

I think this is the best solution indeed.

Thomas

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"Chris Cason" <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> schreef in 
bericht news:47d66069@news.povray.org...
> Further to my other comments, I'd like to add this:
>
> It would be neat if in the image submission process, the entrant could 
> (via
> some click-through legalese) agree that the competition admins may, at
> their discretion, choose to grant third-party requests for non-commercial
> use of their entry if reasonable attempts to contact them fail*. Or have 
> it
> the other way around; make this a default condition of registration/entry
> and require them to opt out of it if they do not wish to do so.
>
> FWIW, permission for use was by far the most common request we received on
> the IRTC admin mailing list. It would be nice if there was a neat way to
> handle this, given that in my experience most entrants were happy for 
> their
> work to be used in a reasonable non-commercial way provided they are 
> credited.
>
> -- Chris
>
> * or even let them specify, if they wish, that we don't need to attempt
>  to contact them.

I think your proposal would cover the issue. I agree.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

le message de news: 47d66069@news.povray.org...

> It would be neat if in the image submission process, the entrant could 
> (via
> some click-through legalese) agree that the competition admins may, at
> their discretion, choose to grant third-party requests for non-commercial
> use of their entry if reasonable attempts to contact them fail*. Or have 
> it
> the other way around; make this a default condition of registration/entry
> and require them to opt out of it if they do not wish to do so.

IANAL, but this seems much too vague from a legal point of view. It would be 
preferable to let users choose between existing, well-established licenses 
that already have formal definitions, terms and conditions. That would also 
simplify image use for third parties. See for instance how Wikimedia Commons 
handles this: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Licensing

G.

-- 
**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray, Cinema 4D and Poser computer art
- Posters

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"Mike the Elder" <nomail@nomail> schreef in bericht 
news:web.47d6897a5c79dc2573e406e60@news.povray.org...
> Given the caliber of the people involved in this project, this comment is
> probably unnecessary, but I feel so strongly about it that I'm going to 
> take
> the time to make it anyway.  Some of the private information that I 
> provided to
> the old IRTC and TC-RTC in the understanding that it would be used 
> privately by
> the Admins now turns up on a Google search for anyone to read. If my 
> address
> and phone number were to similarly be put out in the open for public 
> viewing, I
> would be quite displeased.  Explicit assurances in this regard would be
> appreciated. Also, I'd be willing to give out this information for private
> Admin use only because experience with the people involved has given me 
> reason
> to trust them.  If I had just stumbled upon the IRTC anew and was told 
> that
> giving out my address and phone number were conditions for participating, 
> I
> would very likely suspect the worst and decline to enter.  Please consider
> requiring just a valid email address with a stipulation that if one wins
> anything, a physical address to which the prize is to be sent must be 
> provided
> to the Admins within X number of days or the prize is forfeit.
>

I very strongly agree with this!!!!
Thanks Mike for putting also my own concerns so clearly.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

I've read through all of the proposals here David, and first let me say that I
like the system as it is coming.

I agree with the choice of making an address optional, but IMO, you should put
some sort of disclaimer underneath it.

If I were to write said disclaimer, it would be "A home address is optional, but
if provided, will only be used to mail you a prize in the case of winning a
round.  This information may be provided later, if you wish"

In this manner, people know why they are being asked, and what happens if they
don't give it right away.  I just thought I'd make a point of this.

My second point, I think that the voting system in post one works the best.  I
always liked the system of voting in three categories, partly because I once
received an 8 in one category, while recieving 6's in the others.  Granted
that's not a big difference, but I think it allows for some flexibility.  Also,
I know I'm probably all not right in my train of thought, but, just my line of
the code.

As for the comments, I think they should be on the basis of optional, but highly
recommended.  I remember in one voting round with 25 images, It took at least an
hour and a half to write out all 24 comments (myself excluded), and I had
nothing else to do.  Comments do take a while, and I'll proabably still be
happy to sit out and write them for a couple hours, but there are those out
there who may not have time, and therefore be dissapointed that their votes
won't count because they didn't have time to spare to write out comments.
Again, it's just my line of code.

Any thoughts, David, or anyone else?

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