I agree that what a language needs is legibility. From my point of view, C++
lost that long time ago ... but this is a different history.

Talking about legibility, I would like to know why the directives sitll need
the simbol #. I know that they are interpreted during parsing time and so on
but I think that many of our scenes have more lines beginning with # than
the opposite. Belive me, with some keyboards, it is a difficult symbol.

Why not writing:
declare i=0;
while (i<10)
    sphere {(0,0,i) i/2}
    i=i+1;
end

There should be many problems for the interpreter?

Thx,
Groucho

"Doppelganger" <ped### [at] netcabopt> wrote in message
news:411ed9f8$1@news.povray.org...
> >More comfortable work = more time to concentrate on picture itself.
>
> this is only true for short term work. though I'm not a POV-Ray expert, my
> experience with other languages in which shorthand syntax exists makes me
> say that it's only "comfortable work" for 2 or 3 lines worth of code in
> every 500. The code with dense shorthand easily becomes cluttered and
> impossible to read.
>
> Giving an example of how bad short hand can be in Mathematica code (and I
> tried using this sort of code for serious programming -- to give up
> reasonably soon afterwards):
>
> Compare:
>
> f[x_]=x^2;
> list=Map[f,{1,2,3,4}];
> Apply[Plus,list];
> list
>
> With:
>
> Plus@@((#^2)&/@{1,2,3,4})
>
> they both get the list {1, 2, 3, 4}, square all entries, and sum all the
> entries. Which code segment do you think you'd understand for what it is 2
> months after you'd written it? I had to rtfm to get the second one right
to
> make this point (though I wrote fluently like it when I used it), whereas
> the first one came naturally.
>
> > > Because it is a bloat-feature based in a bloat mentality
> >
> > ?
>
> it's a non-feature. It's not necessary, hardly useful, and it makes (as
> illustrated) for more hard than good.
>
>

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"Rafal 'Raf256' Maj" <spa### [at] raf256com> wrote in message
news:Xns954536876C74raf256com@203.29.75.35...
> chr### [at] gmxde news:cfjc1l$vh2$1@chho.imagico.de
>
> > other keyword with the shortest unique abbreviation - but no one could
> > read the code any more then.
>
> Btw, how about adding some shorten forms for long and often used keywords,
> it could spedd up typing and comforable level of hand-typing .pov code,
> like
>
> light { y*10 rgb 1 }
> diff {
>   box { -5, +5 }
>   sphere { 0 10 }
>   text {
>   pig { bozo cmap{0:<1,0,0> .5:<1,1,0> 1:1} }
>   norm{ bozo .5 }
>   fin { refl .5 phong 0.5,70 spec 0.1,0.06 }
> }
>
> ?
>
> Aliasing keyword is probably easy, another format of for example color_map
> perhaps not so much.
>
> Just an idea.
>

How about using a text editor that supports word completion. something like
what the tab key does in bash or a myriad of other programs. It' smuch
simpler and doesn't subject other people to your whims of what a language
should be.

-r

Post a reply to this message

"Rafal 'Raf256' Maj" <spa### [at] raf256com> wrote in message
news:Xns9545EDC67E010raf256com@203.29.75.35...
> spa### [at] raf256com news:Xns9545ED4602E3Craf256com@203.29.75.35
>
> (...)
>
> but anyway I do not insist so hard about aliases, since Tab future is
> greate, if only it would be implemented also in linux-editors...
>
> -- 
> http://www.raf256.com/3d/
> Rafal Maj 'Raf256', home page - http://www.raf256.com/me/
> Computer Graphics

emacs has symbol completion. one just needs to tell it what the symbols are
for the major mode you are in. i havn't even noticed if it works by default
in povmode for emacs. povmode definately has all the keywords needed,
because it performs syntax highlighting properly.

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"Samuel Benge" <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:411### [at] hotmailcom...
> Perhaps those working on other operating systems can push to
> have this functionality placed into their editor?
>
> -Sam
>

Vim and Emacs have the ability to have this functionality in general. What
other editors are there? ;)

What about the new qtpoveditor? does it have symbol completion?

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"Ross" <rli### [at] everestkcnet> wrote in message
news:4120cc25@news.povray.org...
> "Samuel Benge" <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
> news:411### [at] hotmailcom...
> > Perhaps those working on other operating systems can push to
> > have this functionality placed into their editor?
> >
> > -Sam
> >
>
> Vim and Emacs have the ability to have this functionality in general. What
> other editors are there? ;)
>
> What about the new qtpoveditor? does it have symbol completion?

According to Florian, yes it does also!

Cheers,
    Brian

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Some suggestions:

-file starts with a #development [code]
-the [code] is in an ini file in pov-ray's directory, along with custom code
prefs (sphere=sp,...) (you may have several [codes])
-> on the computer with the [code], you'd see sp{0,1}, but on a computer
without the proper [code], or without the #development state, or in a text
editor, you'd see standard code.
So the translation would be done in pov.

A better interface!
1- customisable button bar (you would add links to files from insert menu:
add something in one click)
2- at least, a return on screen option (or have i missed it?)
3- an enhanced insert menu interface to the left of the screen (i wonder if
many on us use that part of the screen)
-see the right menu in 3ds/gmax/hamapatch? Like that, but to expand the
menus, you may use shortcut keys.

Example:
(initial menu, A,B=things like "light", "shape":)
[A - alt+a]
[B - alt+b]

(do alt+a:)
[A - alt+a]
  [sphere - ctrl+shift+s]
  [cylinder - ...]
[B - alt+b]

So if you can customise the shortcuts, the text editing will be MUCH faster,
and not so hard to use since you don't have to remember the shortcut keys.
Faster? you won't use the mouse anymore, won't have to use the arrows to
navigate in the insert menu

selsek

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selsek nous apporta ses lumieres ainsi en ce 20/08/2004 20:11... :

>Some suggestions:
>
>-file starts with a #development [code]
>-the [code] is in an ini file in pov-ray's directory, along with custom code
>prefs (sphere=sp,...) (you may have several [codes])
>-> on the computer with the [code], you'd see sp{0,1}, but on a computer
>without the proper [code], or without the #development state, or in a text
>editor, you'd see standard code.
>So the translation would be done in pov.
>
>A better interface!
>1- customisable button bar (you would add links to files from insert menu:
>add something in one click)
>2- at least, a return on screen option (or have i missed it?)
>3- an enhanced insert menu interface to the left of the screen (i wonder if
>many on us use that part of the screen)
>-see the right menu in 3ds/gmax/hamapatch? Like that, but to expand the
>menus, you may use shortcut keys.
>
>Example:
>(initial menu, A,B=things like "light", "shape":)
>[A - alt+a]
>[B - alt+b]
>
>(do alt+a:)
>[A - alt+a]
>  [sphere - ctrl+shift+s]
>  [cylinder - ...]
>[B - alt+b]
>
>So if you can customise the shortcuts, the text editing will be MUCH faster,
>and not so hard to use since you don't have to remember the shortcut keys.
>Faster? you won't use the mouse anymore, won't have to use the arrows to
>navigate in the insert menu
>
>selsek
>
>
>  
>
OK. You propose a _display_ user defined substitution of selected 
keywords. That way, you can use whatever personal shorthand you want, 
while still outputing normal code. The support for that will make the 
editor biger and more prone to bugs. Maybe somebody can make a patched 
version to test it...

Alain

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