"pan" <pan### [at] syixcom> wrote in message news:408c6054@news.povray.org...
> How sad that news.povray.,org is now officially censored.

People love to throw the word "censored" around.

I open my home and allow guests to come in and discuss things within it, and
I provide food and a place to hang their artworks.  The guests know what I
consider acceptable behaviour in my home and they're all rational people and
they feel happy to be there - they have a great time - but one guest becomes
disruptive and starts abusing my other guests and constantly consuming wall
space with artworks that are offensive to me and my guests.  I warn him that
his aggressive and disrespectful behaviour isn't acceptable as a guest in my
home and that if he continues I'll have no choice but to throw him out.  Yet
he continues, knowing that what he is doing is wrong, and taking
entertainment in it.  Is throwing him out censorship?  No, it's exercising
my right as the owner, for the protection of my home, myself, and my guests.

IMBJR knew what constituted acceptable use of this server, and he decided
that he wanted to cause trouble.  Thankfully, people like that aren't
tolerated around here, nor should they be.

> Are there any existant forums not  subject to peculiar and
> religous censorship where artists may post their work without
> any fear of irrational opposition?

He has his own server to post any material he wants, but this isn't his
server.  I don't see how the owner of a server kicking someone off their
server is irrational - they own it, they can do whatever they want with it.
We're just lucky that this server even exists, in my opinion.  99.999% of
users have absolutely no problems on this server because they exercise
common sense and respect the other members of the community.

> Pan

We have a great community of talented, enthusiastic, inspirational and
respectful people here and I'm happy that this action has been taken to
ensure the continued existence of that community.

Lance.

thezone - thezone.firewave.com.au
thehandle - www.thehandle.com

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"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
news:408b936b$1@news.povray.org...
>
> It is with regret that this message serves as official notice that IMBJR's
> authorization to connect to news.povray.org has been revoked.

I'm fairly certain that's what IMBJR wanted...

-- 
Jeremy
www.beantoad.com

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"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message
news:408c6327@news.povray.org...
> pan <pan### [at] syixcom> wrote:
> > How sad that news.povray.,org is now officially censored.
>
>   Now? You really think this was the first time?
>
The first time someone was prohiibted form news.povray.org
was Giwer, nicht war?


> > Are there any existant forums not  subject to peculiar and
> > religous censorship where artists may post their work without
> > any fear of irrational opposition?
>
>   Irrational opposition? Are you trying to make a joke?
>
Of course not.

The banning was done on the basis of content alone.
You surely are not going to deny that are you?

>   Of course it would be useless to ask you to explain why you think
> this case has been "irrational", so I won't.
>

You probably wouldn't understand the irrationality of banning
a submitter on a content basis so there is no reason to repsond to
your implicit query as to why banning IMBJR is irrational.

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"Lance Birch" <-> wrote in message news:408c7354$1@news.povray.org...
> "pan" <pan### [at] syixcom> wrote in message news:408c6054@news.povray.org...
> > How sad that news.povray.,org is now officially censored.
>
> People love to throw the word "censored" around.
>
> I open my home and allow guests to come in and discuss things within it,
and
> I provide food and a place to hang their artworks.  The guests know what I
> consider acceptable behaviour in my home and they're all rational people
and
> they feel happy to be there - they have a great time - but one guest
becomes
> disruptive and starts abusing my other guests and constantly consuming
wall
> space with artworks that are offensive to me and my guests.  I warn him
that
> his aggressive and disrespectful behaviour isn't acceptable as a guest in
my
> home and that if he continues I'll have no choice but to throw him out.
Yet
> he continues, knowing that what he is doing is wrong, and taking
> entertainment in it.  Is throwing him out censorship?  No, it's exercising
> my right as the owner, for the protection of my home, myself, and my
guests.
>

Yes, the owner of news.povray.org may exercise total contro, over the
content of what is posted. No argumenbt there.
However, ownership of a news group server does not necissarily invalidate
the idea that banning a a contributer solely on the basis of content
is irrational.

> IMBJR knew what constituted acceptable use of this server, and he decided
> that he wanted to cause trouble.  Thankfully, people like that aren't
> tolerated around here, nor should they be.
>

What is acceptable is clearly up to Chris Cason alone.
What is the prupose of denying that the AUP is subkective and capricious?
Clearly, Chris has the right to deny certain content from being posted
to his news server, but that rioght, by itself, does not provide compelte
absolution from criticism.

> > Are there any existant forums not  subject to peculiar and
> > religous censorship where artists may post their work without
> > any fear of irrational opposition?
>
> He has his own server to post any material he wants, but this isn't his
> server.  I don't see how the owner of a server kicking someone off their
> server is irrational - they own it, they can do whatever they want with
it.
> We're just lucky that this server even exists, in my opinion.  99.999% of
> users have absolutely no problems on this server because they exercise
> common sense and respect the other members of the community.
>

Yes, I agree. But, twhat you term 'common sense' is nothing but
Chris' version. Let's not deny the truth of that. To ascribe one
person's view of what is 'proper' to some general definition is
not logical or rational.
Some people actually do view  natural sexual content as both
healthy and beneficial. YMMV.

> > Pan
>
> We have a great community of talented, enthusiastic, inspirational and
> respectful people here and I'm happy that this action has been taken to
> ensure the continued existence of that community.
>
The community will suffer to the extent that a small number of nosiy
objectors can successfully demand censorship of images that they,
the minority, find uncomfortable or in discordance with their version
of what is "acceptable".

How can you deny that some, including  myself, experience sadness
that news.povray.org is now characterized as having a narrow
and conservative threshold of acceptabiltity.

Remember, no one bothered to survey the actual feelings of all of those
who read news.povray.org. All that has happened is that a very small
number of people have successfully caused a banning of a poster
of sexual material. Who knows how many of us agree with the
noisy minority?

Pan

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pan wrote:
> 
> How sad that news.povray.,org is now officially censored.

Censorship is the coercive suppression of a viewpoint,
and is enforced by the seizure of the suppressed person's
life, property, or freedom.  None of these things has
happened to IMBJR.

> Are there any existant forums not  subject to peculiar and
> religous censorship where artists may post their work without
> any fear of irrational opposition?

Yes, I remember all of the bible verses quoted in opposition
to IMBJR's posting.  Oh, wait, there weren't any.

I guess it wasn't religious censorship.

Regards,
John

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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> 
> Posted April 25, 2004
> ---------------------
> 
> For the Public Record,
> 
> It is with regret that this message serves as official notice that IMBJR's
> authorization to connect to news.povray.org has been revoked. This is a
> unanimously supported action on the part of the News Server Administration
> and was not done without considerable deliberation on our part.
> 
> IMBJR has shown through his actions on this news server that he is unable or
> unwilling to accept the AUP and he continued posting images he had
> repeatedly been told that those images are unacceptable for posting on this
> server.  As such he has left us with no alternative but to deny him further
> access to this news server.

Those whose ISP includes the Usenet group alt.binaries.3d.poser, and have the
time, may want to go over there and see what's being said about this.

Regards,
John

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pan wrote:


> 
> How can you deny that some, including  myself, experience sadness
> that news.povray.org is now characterized as having a narrow
> and conservative threshold of acceptabiltity.
> 

You have to have more faith in your own beliefs and values.  Your 
reaction is not entirely wrong but be careful not to react to 
intolerance in kind.  Question why you seek to have your values 
validated by news.povray.org.  News.povray.org is what it is.  Different 
people, different views,... a loose set of objectives that do, in fact, 
limit content, and behavior, in some ways.  Make your case as rationally 
as you can, then leave it at that.  It is expecting too much to expect 
personal validation from the situation. This is only a victory for 
narrowmindedness if you choose to accept it as such.  Stay open minded 
yourself.  That is all that you can really do.

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"John VanSickle" <evi### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:408C8EF8.D9D58DD2@hotmail.com...

> Those whose ISP includes the Usenet group alt.binaries.3d.poser, and have the
> time, may want to go over there and see what's being said about this.

I didn't see any mention of it in that group. Is there a particular thread I missed or
perhaps
a different group than the one you mentioned?

Post a reply to this message

In article <408c6054@news.povray.org> , "pan" <pan### [at] syixcom> wrote:

> How sad that news.povray.,org is now officially censored.

As was pointed out to you already, if an owner kicks someone out of their
property this is their right.

BTW, the very fact of allowing this discussion should make it absolutely
clear that your statement is incorrect...

> Are there any existant forums not  subject to peculiar and
> religous censorship where artists may post their work without
> any fear of irrational opposition?

There is no religious motive at all.  As you obviously do not know the final
reason for the ban of IMBJR, you are not in the position to to call it
"irrational".  And if you consider the whole POV-Team and TAG "irrational"
in their support for this action, this is your right, but don't expect to
find many to agree with you.

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich
e-mail: mac### [at] povrayorg

I am a member of the POV-Ray Team.
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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In article <408c7d32$1@news.povray.org> , "Jeremy M. Praay" 
<sla### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:

> "Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
> news:408b936b$1@news.povray.org...
>>
>> It is with regret that this message serves as official notice that IMBJR's
>> authorization to connect to news.povray.org has been revoked.
>
> I'm fairly certain that's what IMBJR wanted...

Yes, I am fairly certain about it as well.

Let me take this opportunity to summarise the events that made this action
on our part necessary.  I would also like to express that we were very
reluctant to take this action, but we had simply no choice:

As the reason has not been stated, and some here seem to believe it was due
to the content of various images, the reason was actually the content of one
image, a content unacceptable in a public forum open to minors.  It is the
image that caused the original discussion about unacceptable content.  And
the initial response of the Chris Cason was to see where it goes.  For the
majority of users of this server community pressure is sufficient to let
them behave as a guest on this server, and never has and never will any
person be banned just because they made one mistake.

However, IMBJR posted the same content, modified as a GIF again.  This went
on with several other images.  Those images were not new work, he simply
took them from his website and posted them here for storage and rejected
interest in any discussion of them.  At this point Chris Cason had no choice
but to formally warn him that such behavior is unacceptable for various
reasons.  This warning was issued with full support from the POV-Team and
TAG.  As you know the POV-Team and TAG are composed of people from all over
the world with different backgrounds.  And still we all reached the same
conclusion that a warning was needed.  The reasons were made clear and IMBJR
said he would comply.

So, two days ago he posted the image that caused the original controversy
again.  This time in bright colors, but the same content of course.  The
image was removed by us.  The next day he posted it again as he had realised
the image had been removed.  Without doubt IMBJR was fully aware that
posting the same image that was deemed inappropriate for posting on this
server twice before.  As such, he posted it only for the one reason, to
provoke controversy a third time.  This is not acceptable use of the this
server, and for this he was banned.

After two clear warnings.  One from the community, one from the owner of
this server.

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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