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Gilles Tran wrote:
> http://infinitespire.weblogger.com/
>
> This proposal for the WTC memorial competition
> (http://www.wtcsitememorial.org/), one of the 5200 that were eventually
> submitted, is the brainchild of telecom entrepreneur/author and SETI
> part-time worker Brian McConnell, from San Francisco. At the beginning
of
> 2003, Brian, who sometimes dabbles with POV-Ray, recruited some people
(pro
> bono) to help with the visualisation of this project. Robert Becker, a
> professional illustrator, did the watercolors, and I did the CG renderi
ngs
> in POV-Ray, with some Rhino and Xfrog help. The site features a few of
these
> [...]
Congratulations, the 'infinite spire' concept seems an interesting idea
for such a memorial although i completely agree that it would be
somewhat unrealistic and exaggerated to build it.
For
http://infinitespire.weblogger.com/museum
i would have loved to see a POV-Ray render...
Christoph
--
POV-Ray tutorials, include files, Sim-POV,
HCR-Edit and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/
Last updated 25 Oct. 2003 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______
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On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 01:15:10 +0100, "Gilles Tran" <gitran_nospam_@wanadoo.fr>
wrote:
> http://infinitespire.weblogger.com/
> This proposal for the WTC memorial competition
Interesting. I hope that 'Gilles Tran x154' will give you next benefits from
being 3D artists.
ABX
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news:p2i### [at] triton imagicode...
>http://infinitespire.weblogger.com/museum
>
>i would have loved to see a POV-Ray render...
Indeed, the museum interior would be a good excercise in radiosity,
mathematical modelling and lighting. Brian McConnell wanted me to do this
too but I didn't have the time.
Note that if people are interested in making additional renders for this
project, I'm sure Brian won't object to it if the images are nice.
G.
--
POV-Ray tutorials, include files, Sim-POV,
HCR-Edit and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/
Last updated 25 Oct. 2003 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______
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news:3fd538f2$1@news.povray.org...
> Gilles you get involved in some pretty interesting stuff. Beautiful
> renders!
Oh the renders could have been much better. There are lots of constraints in
a project like this because it is a real place. The lighting was
particularly tricky, as I wanted it to be honest (unlike in other
architectural renders). So I spent a lot of time tweaking things that I
wouldn't care about in a personal project. The butterflies, for instance,
were Brian McConnell's idea to give a more surreal twist to the presentation
board. There were many of them, until we realised that it looked like they
were attacking the spire, which wasn't exactly a good idea given the
context... So only a few monarchs were left in the image eventually. This
sort of experience is always interesting, though too much time-consuming.
G.
--
**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters
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"Gilles Tran" <gitran_nospam_@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:3fd51433$1@news.povray.org...
> http://infinitespire.weblogger.com/
>
Interesting - I took the various VR tours as well. IMHO the 'gimmick' of the
design would swamp the symbolism of the design, but waddaiknow? Still, it got me
thinking about the whole memorial thing...
I dunno - is it me or is the whole thing getting a little fetishistic? I can't
help feeling that the best memorial would have been to leave ground zero alone,
perhaps with a simple stone memorial recording the names of the dead, rather
than trying to perform some kind of spiritual graft onto history. Would anyone
advocate knocking down Auschwitz and building a huge monument in it's place? Why
try and erect a symbol to something that's already symbolic enough,
thankyouverymuch?*
* once again, I'm reminded of Pink Floyd performing "The Wall" in front of the
recently demolished Berlin Wall, and describing it as "symbolic". As one
commentator noted, the symbolism was pretty redundant...
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news:3fd6e73e$1@news.povray.org...
> I dunno - is it me or is the whole thing getting a little fetishistic? I
can't
> help feeling that the best memorial would have been to leave ground zero
alone,
> perhaps with a simple stone memorial recording the names of the dead,
rather
> than trying to perform some kind of spiritual graft onto history.
Agreed. As far as I'm concerned, a simple children's playground with bright
coloured games would have been symbolic enough, with a small memorial area
(a stone, some trees and benches) on the periphery.
G.
--
**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters
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Gilles Tran wrote:
> news:3fd6e73e$1@news.povray.org...
>
>
>>I dunno - is it me or is the whole thing getting a little fetishistic? I
>
> can't
>
>>help feeling that the best memorial would have been to leave ground zero
>
> alone,
>
>>perhaps with a simple stone memorial recording the names of the dead,
>
> rather
>
>>than trying to perform some kind of spiritual graft onto history.
>
>
> Agreed. As far as I'm concerned, a simple children's playground with bright
> coloured games would have been symbolic enough, with a small memorial area
> (a stone, some trees and benches) on the periphery.
>
I heartily agree with both of you.
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Tom Melly wrote:
>
> I dunno - is it me or is the whole thing getting a little fetishistic?
>
I think it was for the "Gardens" round, the entry I never completed in
time, was of a garden filled with giant topiary sculptures of women's
shoes standing on their toes. It may have been an even better idea than
I realized at the time.
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"Gilles Tran" <tra### [at] inapginrafr> wrote in
news:3fd7135c$1@news.povray.org:
> As far as I'm concerned, a simple children's playground with
> bright coloured games would have been symbolic enough, with a small
> memorial area (a stone, some trees and benches) on the periphery.
>
> G.
I think the Political/Media circus that the redevelopment has become is a
fitting tribute to the Political/Media circus that the original WTC was.
It was the ugly duckling of our city that we grew to love.
As for the memorial, I think we should wait until after the war ends, and
time gives a bit of perspective.
--
Tom
_________________________________
The Internet Movie Project
http://www.imp.org/
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Hello,
I just happened across this discussion and thought I would post some brief
comments about the project.
The origin of this design proposal was a math problem unrelated to the WTC
memorial. In early 2002, I was curious if it was possible to shape an
object so that, when viewed from a specific distance, it would appear to be
infinitely tall. I worked out a solution for this and set this aside. Only
later did it occur to me that infinity might be an appropriate theme for
the Sept 11th memorial. Infinity can work as a metaphor for many things:
eternity, death, the future.
I was in New York City on March 11th, 2002 when they lit up the Tribute in
Light. This temporary memorial consisted of two square beams of light, one
for each tower. What impressed me most about the Tribute in Light was the
way it invited people to look up, and how people read the memorial
differently. Some saw it as a ghost of the Twin Towers, others as souls
ascending, others as a beacon of sorts. It didn't tell you how you were
supposed to feel. It just reminded you of what was there, and of the
magnitude of what happened there.
I wanted to do something similar with our design. I wanted the memorial to
be a physical memory of what happened, but also abstract enough that it
would be relevant to future visitors. I've talked to many people who either
lost loved ones or witnessed the attacks in person, most of whom thought
the memorial's main purpose should be to speak to future viewers. If
September 11th taught us anything, it is that our inventions can be turned
upon us. Where will we be in 50 or 100 years when people are messing with
DNA the way they mess with software today? The paradox we face is that as
technology grows more powerful, the risk grows that a small group of people
or even an individual can cause a catastrophe, by accident or malice. What
if the next Unabomber is a geneticist (we had a close call two years ago
with the anthrax mailer)?. This risk will only increase as technology
becomes more potent and accessible, and there may not be much we can do
about it.
This theme drove the rest of the design, hence the juxtaposition of the
spire with the randomly arranged headstones. This was intended to be read
in two ways, in the present as a physical memory of what happened, and in
the future as a reminder of the danger we face. Of course, this wasn't the
message the jury was looking for, as it was not shortlisted. That's fine,
the design wasn't an attempt at second-guessing the jury. It is what it is,
and it wasn't what they were looking for this time. As Gilles mentioned, we
mainly wanted the design to be an object of discussion.
So thank you for taking time to look at the proposal, and for taking time to
write in with comments.
Brian McConnell, lead designer
PS - A general criticism of the design (and vertical designs in general) is
that it is impractical, too tall, etc. Two of America's best known
memorials, the Washington Monument, and the St Louis Arch (a memorial of
America's westward expansion) were considered engineering marvels in their
day. An important consideration for the 9/11 memorial is that it is
surrounded on all sides by skyscrapers which will make a street level
memorial invisible to everyone except for visitors. The Tribute in Light
was popular because it was a landmark that was visible from great
distances, and because it invited people to look to the sky (an important
consideration for families who may not want to fight through throngs of
tourists). In the long term, 9/11 will become a historical event that will
be largely forgotten. Hard to imagine now, but 3,000 people died on 9/11,
millions died in World War II. Ask most young people what they know about
WWII, probably very little. Another reason why it demands a memorial that
will not allow the event to be forgotten so easily.
FWIW, they should wait a few years before they commit to building something.
With time it will become clearer what is the best way to approach the
memorial. The best idea I have heard to date is to turn the entire area
where the two towers stood, including the slurry wall, into a park and
temporary memorial. Preserve the space, and consider a permanent memorial
no sooner than 2006.
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