In article <3d7209c5@news.povray.org> , Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg>  wrote:

>   So how many % of people are seeing "unreadable layout"? Less than 1%
> perhaps? And that's only because they refuse to upgrade their browser,
> which is a 10-minutes operation.
>   No, I still don't agree with you.

More than 10% of all POV-Ray 3.5 users who turn to your page.  All Mac users
that would be.  Plus the "rest".  I have not checked on how many other
browsers your site breaks.

And what you apply is unreasonable standards.  Maybe this will explain it
better:

"Note that no distinction is made between patches which are themselves buggy
and patches which expose "latent" bugs elsewhere in the compiler."
<http://gcc.gnu.org/develop.html>

to be read as

"Note that no distinction is made between layout which is itself buggy and
layout which exposes "latent" layout problems elsewhere in the browser."


____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

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In article <3d7208be@news.povray.org> , Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg>  wrote:

> Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
>> One solution is to stay away from crap like CSS2 and other nonsense.
>
>   Please immediately remove all CSS from the <snip> povray.org
> site, or either stop that bullshit. Thanks.

It does not use CSS2, if you would bother to check...

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

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In article <3d720a8a@news.povray.org> , Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg>  wrote:

>   You have still failed to explain why CSS is crap.

I said CSS2, if you had only read my posts.  Apart from that, you are
quoting me out of context and try to turn my words around.  Read the first
paragraph or else you force me to remove all structure from my posts and use
only single paragraph posts to prevent such quoting style.

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

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> > One solution is to stay away from crap like CSS2 and other nonsense.
> 
>   Please immediately remove all CSS from the POV-Ray HTML help and povray.org
> site, or either stop that bullshit. Thanks.

Last I knew, Ingo was teh documentation coordinator...

And this is now *way* off topic for this group IMO.
 
>   Besides, how many % of people are using Netscape 4 and refuse to upgrade?

I still use it occasionally on my system when Opera won't render a page 
properly.  It's still used almost exclusively on my mother's PC 
downstairs.  My brother again uses it when Opera doesn't render a page 
properly, and uses it on his laptop.

At least four of my friends use it.

Jamie.

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Warp wrote:
> 
> Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
> > One solution is to stay away from crap like CSS2 and other nonsense.
> 
>   Please immediately remove all CSS from the POV-Ray HTML help and povray.org
> site, or either stop that bullshit. Thanks.

Nice discussion, but don't you think this would be much more adequate in
.off-topic?

>   Besides, how many % of people are using Netscape 4 and refuse to upgrade?

I'm still using Netscape 4 regularly and i know a lot of reasons why one
should use it.  More than 10% of my website visitors use Netscape 3 or 4
BTW.

Christoph

-- 
POV-Ray tutorials, IsoWood include,                 
TransSkin and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/  
Last updated 13 Aug. 2002 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______

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Warp wrote:

>   Besides, how many % of people are using Netscape 4 and refuse to upgrade?

Refuse to do so?

I haven't upgraded simply because I have yet to find a compelling reason to do so.
I have spent literally thousands of hours using this program in its present form
and I am very comfortable with it. I have the views all set the way I like them, my
preferences are set where I need them, my email and newsgroup filters are all in
place, my news groups are properly identified and view as I like them to and most
importantly my bookmarks file is layed out, structured and functioning perfectly.
Every time I have upgraded a browser in the past they have made changes or additions
that annoyed the hell out of me. Can you assure me that absolutely nothing that
I am comfortable with now will change if I upgrade, especially with regards to the
bookmarks feature in Netscape and the way messages are viewed in the mail and news
clients? Do you know both versions so well you can make that recommendation with
100% confidence that I will be 100% satisified with the outcome? I don't think so!

-- 
Ken Tyler

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In article <3D7214A1.83859343@gmx.de> , Christoph Hormann 
<chr### [at] gmxde>  wrote:

> Nice discussion, but don't you think this would be much more adequate in
> .off-topic?

I don't read p.off-topic.... ;-)

But otherwise you are more or less right.  On the other hand it is about the
readability of an important POV-Ray resources................


____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

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In article <3D7219E3.5B7F344A@pacbell.net> , Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet>  
wrote:

> I haven't upgraded simply because I have yet to find a compelling reason to do
> so. I have spent literally thousands of hours using this program in its
> present form and I am very comfortable with it. I have the views all set the
> way I like them, my preferences are set where I need them, my email and
> newsgroup filters are all in place, my news groups are properly identified and
> view as I like them to and most importantly my bookmarks file is layed out,
> structured and functioning perfectly. Every time I have upgraded a browser in
> the past they have made changes or additions that annoyed the hell out of me.
> Can you assure me that absolutely nothing that I am comfortable with now will
> change if I upgrade, especially with regards to the bookmarks feature in
> Netscape and the way messages are viewed in the mail and news clients? Do you
> know both versions so well you can make that recommendation with 100%
> confidence that I will be 100% satisified with the outcome? I don't think so!

Most important, I yet i have to figure out where IE stores its bookmark file
on Windows.  Not sure about Mozilla either.

And the scripts that build the links collection (btw, it should have been
updated on povray.org by now) depend on the Netscape 4.x bookmark file to
extract all in information.  They would fail should the format change...

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:

> And the scripts that build the links collection (btw, it should have been
> updated on povray.org by now) depend on the Netscape 4.x bookmark file to
> extract all in information.  They would fail should the format change...

One of my major fears had been that it would break the povray.org links page
update facility. Thanks for getting the update finished. I was exploring the
changes just before reading this last message. I only noted a couple of typos
on my part, which means there are probably a dozen more or so that I missed
<sigh!>.

-- 
Ken Tyler

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"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
news:3d721dc2$1@news.povray.org...
> Most important, I yet i have to figure out where IE stores its bookmark
file
> on Windows.  Not sure about Mozilla either.
>


    They're in your Favourites folder - they're just stored as shortcuts,
rather than a list of URLs in a file - if you want to export them to a file
go to File->Import/Export (for I.E 6 at least, previous version may be
different (though, not in terms of the Favourites folder))...

--
Pandora/Scott Hill/[::O:M:C::]Scorpion
Software Engineer.
http://www.pandora-software.com

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