In article <3d712290@news.povray.org> , Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg>  wrote:

>  I don't really want to degrade the pages because of an old and obsolete
> browser.

Well, that is the wrong attitude.  Remember there are a billion pages to
visit on the web.  If your page is crap people will just turn to one of the
999999999 other pages.  So if you are at all interested at people looking at
your page, you better get it to work correctly for everyone!

One solution is to stay away from crap like CSS2 and other nonsense.
Remember that the point of the web is not forcing people to upgrade to
whatever browser you like but to make ***content*** available.  If you fail
to present the content in a readable manner people will just ignore it.
There is more to see than just your one page, and there will always be an
alternate source they can use.  Soon thereafter your page will be
irrelevant!

Or as someone who knows well said "Forget the Web's Realities? You Die" [1].


    Thorsten


[1] <http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20010819.html>

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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In article <3d7130fc@news.povray.org> , Xplo Eristotle <xpl### [at] infomagicnet>
wrote:

> If the site is written correctly, then it is your browser that is
> broken, not the site.

This is the biggest bullshit I have read in a long time!

There is no standard for HTML that requires it to render like crap.  Nor is
CSS required anywhere.  If you like to follow "recommendations" by a
industry interest group like the W3C, you lost sense of reality.  See for
yourself:  <http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Member/List>

So it is really that far now that people start telling me I have to follow
what a bunch of self appointed companies say I should?  Oh great.  When they
tell you whom to vote for in the next election, will you also follow them?

On the other hand, if you follow the ISO HTML standard (ISO/IEC 15445)
rather than the W3C crap you get pages that work everywhere.  Not really
surprising as the ISO committees are usually experts rather than companies
who only represent self-interests...


    Thorsten


____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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In article <3d7169a5@news.povray.org> , Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg>  wrote:

>   Secondly, how my site is "broken"? It's 100% valid standard HTML 4 and
> it works ok with a modern browser.

Does it really conform to ISO HTML?  The W3C does not set standards, they
give (bad) "recommendations".  There is a big difference between standards
and recommendations!

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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In article <3d7169a5@news.povray.org> , Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg>  wrote:

>   Firstly, if you don't want to upgrade your browser to a newer version,
> that's your problem, not mine. If you want to use an old browser, then
> fine, use it, but don't complain to me because it's not my problem.

Remind me to vote for  only providing Pentium 4 and PowerPC G4 versions of
POV-Ray next time.  After all, if you are using old and broken processors
that lack some important instructions you don't deserve to use POV-Ray!

Does this mirror help your attitude?

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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In article <3d71c1cd@news.povray.org> , Xplo Eristotle <xpl### [at] infomagicnet>
wrote:

> For gods' sakes, Ken, stop acting like a fucking baby and upgrade
> already. Or don't.

No, you are wrong and Ken is right.  You are producing nonsense and then
complain if Ken tells you.  Well ... keep in mind there are people who
actually *work* with their computer using it as *tool* rather than as a
*toy* spending countless hours hunting for the latest updates.  If that is
your only hobby, maybe you should seek counseling...

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
> So it is really that far now that people start telling me I have to follow
> what a bunch of self appointed companies say I should?  Oh great.  When they
> tell you whom to vote for in the next election, will you also follow them?

  Your attitude is really strange (specially considering that even the
POV-Ray HTML help uses CSS and needs at least a certain version of IE).

  The recommendations and standards set by the W3C are things that browsers
are supporting or will be supporting in the near future if they want to
keep up with the progress.

  You talk like the situation was a lot better years ago, when every browser
had their own non-standard extensions and other browsers tried to copy those
extensions in order to keep up.
  Now there's one standard to follow, and you say that's a bad thing? Sorry,
but I don't agree with you.

  This "CSS sucks" attitude really amazes me. Come on people. Wake up.
Whining that old browsers don't support CSS is exactly as stupid as whining
that new games don't work with older versions of DirectX: So what? Upgrade
your DirectX. Simple.

-- 
#macro M(A,N,D,L)plane{-z,-9pigment{mandel L*9translate N color_map{[0rgb x]
[1rgb 9]}scale<D,D*3D>*1e3}rotate y*A*8}#end M(-3<1.206434.28623>70,7)M(
-1<.7438.1795>1,20)M(1<.77595.13699>30,20)M(3<.75923.07145>80,99)// - Warp -

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Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
> If you want your site completely usable by only 5-10% of all the
> worlds computer users

  I would really like to know where did you get those numbers. You don't
seriously claim that only 5-10% of computer users in the world are using
Internet Explorer or Netscape 6 or Mozilla?
  This would mean that, according to you, 90% of people are using Netscape 4.

-- 
#macro M(A,N,D,L)plane{-z,-9pigment{mandel L*9translate N color_map{[0rgb x]
[1rgb 9]}scale<D,D*3D>*1e3}rotate y*A*8}#end M(-3<1.206434.28623>70,7)M(
-1<.7438.1795>1,20)M(1<.77595.13699>30,20)M(3<.75923.07145>80,99)// - Warp -

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In article <3d720276@news.povray.org> , Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg>  wrote:

>   Your attitude is really strange (specially considering that even the
> POV-Ray HTML help uses CSS and needs at least a certain version of IE).

It does not.  Never did.  It works completely without it.  Besides, when did
_I_ create Windows HTML help?  Microsoft created it and set the
requirements, not me!

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
> No, you are wrong and Ken is right.  You are producing nonsense and then
> complain if Ken tells you.  Well ... keep in mind there are people who
> actually *work* with their computer using it as *tool* rather than as a
> *toy* spending countless hours hunting for the latest updates.  If that is
> your only hobby, maybe you should seek counseling...

  What you are saying there is just nonsense.
  Installing the newest Netscape takes probably about 10 minutes, and that's
it. It's not like you have to do it every day.

-- 
#macro N(D)#if(D>99)cylinder{M()#local D=div(D,104);M().5,2pigment{rgb M()}}
N(D)#end#end#macro M()<mod(D,13)-6mod(div(D,13)8)-3,10>#end blob{
N(11117333955)N(4254934330)N(3900569407)N(7382340)N(3358)N(970)}//  - Warp -

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In article <3d720276@news.povray.org> , Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg>  wrote:

>   This "CSS sucks" attitude really amazes me. Come on people. Wake up.

The web is about ***content***, not layout.  Don't you get it?

You want to present your content, but you focus on unreadable layout and
supposedly neat features nobody needs that just cause problems (and I warned
you before that they would).  That is the problem I am having with your
attitude.  Not more, not less.

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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