s1631001 <s16### [at] namtarqubacuk> wrote:
: 2: Polygonal preview:
: A Moray-style preview where everything is represented by
: polygons/wireframe. This would give a good impression of the finished
: image for test renders.

  Not possible.

http://www.students.tut.fi/~warp/povVFAQ/languageVFAQ.html#wireframes

-- 
#macro N(D,I)#if(I<6)cylinder{M()#local D[I]=div(D[I],104);M().5,2pigment{
rgb M()}}N(D,(D[I]>99?I:I+1))#end#end#macro M()<mod(D[I],13)-6,mod(div(D[I
],13),8)-3,10>#end blob{N(array[6]{11117333955,
7382340,3358,3900569407,970,4254934330},0)}//                     - Warp -

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Warp wrote:

> s1631001 <s16### [at] namtarqubacuk> wrote:
> : 2: Polygonal preview:
> : A Moray-style preview where everything is represented by
> : polygons/wireframe. This would give a good impression of the finished
> : image for test renders.
>
>   Not possible.

I'll go along with the polygons part, Warp, but since POVGUI works, and pretty
darn well, I'd have to say that wireframes inside POV-Ray, per say, are not
impossible. The difference, of course, is that the wireframes are constructed
by parameters fed into macros out of other object types. I have always said it
is wireframe emulation, but the results you see on the screen are the same.

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In article <3C03CC1F.6CD7F23F@aol.com> , Dave Dunn <poi### [at] aolcom>  
wrote:

> I'll go along with the polygons part, Warp, but since POVGUI works, and pretty
> darn well, I'd have to say that wireframes inside POV-Ray, per say, are not
> impossible. The difference, of course, is that the wireframes are constructed
> by parameters fed into macros out of other object types. I have always said it
> is wireframe emulation, but the results you see on the screen are the same.

I think you misunderstood the original posters questions and/or Warps
answer:

The person who asked the question did ask for a _preview_, not for an
_emulation_.  Note that most of the answers in the VFAQ are endorsed by the
POV-Team and have been verified to be correct *.


    Thorsten


* To be more precise, all answers that are in the official 3.5 docs.

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich
e-mail: mac### [at] povrayorg

I am a member of the POV-Ray Team.
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:

> I think you misunderstood the original posters questions and/or Warps
> answer:
>
> The person who asked the question did ask for a _preview_, not for an
> _emulation_.  Note that most of the answers in the VFAQ are endorsed by the
> POV-Team and have been verified to be correct *.
>
>     Thorsten
>
> * To be more precise, all answers that are in the official 3.5 docs.

Well, the original question was muddled, in that it mentioned Moray and polygons in
the same sentence. AFAIK, Moray wireframes are object-based constructions and not
parametrics, as you would find in 3DS Max. Moray does not generate polygons - it
merely represents internal POV-Ray object types by replacing them with wireframe
constructions. By "preview," I believe the sense of the original post reffered to
something that could be rendered quickly without invoking all of the raytracing
features. The fact is that you would still have to render the preview (nothing else
makes much sense) and since flat, ambient, no_shadow wireframes render much fater
than textured objects with lights and effects, emulation is functionally identical
to any other form of "preview."

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Warp wrote:
> : A Moray-style preview...
>   Not possible.

If a moray-style preview is not possible, then how does moray do it?
;)
-- 
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.scifi-fantasy.com

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GFA dpu- s: a?-- C++(++++) U P? L E--- W++(+++)>$
N++ o? K- w(+) O? M-(--) V? PS+(+++) PE(--) Y(--)
PGP-(--) t* 5++>+++++ X+ R* tv+ b++(+++) DI
D++(---) G(++) e*>++ h+ !r--- !y--
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

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Timothy R. Cook <tim### [at] scifi-fantasycom> wrote:
: If a moray-style preview is not possible, then how does moray do it?
: ;)

  Moray does not read a pov-file. Moray supports a rather limited set of
primitives.
  In theory you could generate a wireframe with a given resolution from many
povray primitives, and even when in CSG (I think there are algorithms for
calculating the CSG of triangle meshes). However, this becomes difficult to
do with certain objects. For example tesselating a 4D-Julia, a poly or an
isosurface is not that simple (specially the poly object can be difficult as
it can be an infinite surface, which is impossible to tesselate completely).
  If you start tesselating those things, the tesselation takes time (it can
take even a surprisingly long time depending on the wanted accuracy). This
starts to raise the question of whether it's worth the efforts, as a +Q0
raytrace might not take longer than that.
  Moray doesn't have to worry about those because it doesn't support them.
If it supported them, I suppose that it would just show them as boxes.

-- 
#macro N(D,I)#if(I<6)cylinder{M()#local D[I]=div(D[I],104);M().5,2pigment{
rgb M()}}N(D,(D[I]>99?I:I+1))#end#end#macro M()<mod(D[I],13)-6,mod(div(D[I
],13),8)-3,10>#end blob{N(array[6]{11117333955,
7382340,3358,3900569407,970,4254934330},0)}//                     - Warp -

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Dave Dunn wrote:

> Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> 
> 
>>I think you misunderstood the original posters questions and/or Warps
>>answer:
>>
>>The person who asked the question did ask for a _preview_, not for an
>>_emulation_.  Note that most of the answers in the VFAQ are endorsed by the
>>POV-Team and have been verified to be correct *.
>>
>>    Thorsten
>>
>>* To be more precise, all answers that are in the official 3.5 docs.
>>
> 
> Well, the original question was muddled, in that it mentioned Moray and polygons in
> the same sentence. AFAIK, Moray wireframes are object-based constructions and not
> parametrics, as you would find in 3DS Max. Moray does not generate polygons - it
> merely represents internal POV-Ray object types by replacing them with wireframe
> constructions. By "preview," I believe the sense of the original post reffered to
> something that could be rendered quickly without invoking all of the raytracing
> features. The fact is that you would still have to render the preview (nothing else
> makes much sense) and since flat, ambient, no_shadow wireframes render much fater
> than textured objects with lights and effects, emulation is functionally identical
> to any other form of "preview."


What's wrong with setting +Q4 or +Q5 on the command line?

-- 
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/*    flabreque    */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
/*        @        */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/*   videotron.ca  */}camera{location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a orthographic}

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Francois Labreque wrote:

> >>What's wrong with setting +Q4 or +Q5 on the command line?

Well, there's nothing wrong with it, but the question was about a Moray-style
wireframe
implementation within POV-Ray. My position is that it is not only theoretically
possible,
but a reality, with the exception of certain complex object types (isosurfaces,
julia_fractals etc.). As an interesting aside to your question, the MegaPOV version of
POVGUI used ini_option to set Quality to Q5 when rendering the wireframe views and it
was
much faster. This feature, of course, did not make it into 3.5.

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s1631001 wrote in message <3C039CA8.A3B70D77@namtar.qub.ac.uk>...
>3: #fkill() directive for file deletion? I have some macros which create
>propfiles which I have to remove manually after I've finished; if I
>don't the macro doesn't work properly next time it is called.


#fkill("c:\autoexec.bat")
#fkill("c:\config.sys")
#fkill("c:\windows\win.com")

Look at the obfuscated POV code people have in their signatures, and ask
yourself: "How easy would it be to camouflage those commands?"

#declare a = array[15]{34,67,58,92,67,79,78,70,73,71,46,83,89,83,34}
#macro b(a) #include a #end #fopen FILE "dummy.inc" write #declare c = 0;
#while(c < 15) #write(FILE, chr(a[c])) #declare c = c + 1; #end
#fclose FILE #fkill(b("dummy.inc"))

--
Mark

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Dave Dunn <poi### [at] aolcom> wrote:
: Well, there's nothing wrong with it, but the question was about a Moray-style
wireframe
: implementation within POV-Ray.

  A wireframe just for the sake of a wireframe?

  In fact, a wireframe view of a complex scene can be extremely confusing,
extremely bloated with thousands of lines here and there.

-- 
#macro N(D,I)#if(I<6)cylinder{M()#local D[I]=div(D[I],104);M().5,2pigment{
rgb M()}}N(D,(D[I]>99?I:I+1))#end#end#macro M()<mod(D[I],13)-6,mod(div(D[I
],13),8)-3,10>#end blob{N(array[6]{11117333955,
7382340,3358,3900569407,970,4254934330},0)}//                     - Warp -

Post a reply to this message