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I am wanting to build avatars and worlds for use in CyberTown online
community.
Can PovRay renderings be exported or saved in the .wrl format?
Thanks for any help
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Hokus Pokus wrote:
> Can PovRay renderings be exported or saved in the .wrl format?
No.
--
Ken Tyler
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Thanks Ken
"Ken" <tyl### [at] pacbell net> wrote in message
news:39E5150B.76AEC3CD@pacbell.net...
>
>
> Hokus Pokus wrote:
>
> > Can PovRay renderings be exported or saved in the .wrl format?
>
> No.
>
> --
> Ken Tyler
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On Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:34:03 -0700, Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
>
>
>Hokus Pokus wrote:
>
>> Can PovRay renderings be exported or saved in the .wrl format?
>
>No.
You may, however, render environment maps using either a cylindrical,
true spherical (from MegaPOV) or six renders with a perspective camera
and map these on a cylinder, sphere or box, respectively. Of course
this will only work as QTVR but it's still better than nothing.
Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] usanet
TAG e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg
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The kindly Rev. overheard pet### [at] usanet (Peter Popov) saying on
12 Oct 2000:
>On Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:34:03 -0700, Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Hokus Pokus wrote:
>>
>>> Can PovRay renderings be exported or saved in the .wrl format?
>>
>>No.
>
>You may, however, render environment maps using either a cylindrical,
>true spherical (from MegaPOV) or six renders with a perspective
>camera and map these on a cylinder, sphere or box, respectively. Of
>course this will only work as QTVR but it's still better than
>nothing.
Yeah, VRML's just a *teensy* bit different from QTVR. The former is
geometry-based, and the latter is photo-based.
The only thing that's worth translating at all, imho, is triangle
meshes. It should be fairly easy with perl or awk or a little piece of
C to turn POVRay triangle meshes into VRML IndexedFaceSets.
--
Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen
crispen at hiwaay dot net
If a cow laughed, would milk come out her nose?
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On 20 Oct 2000 18:47:00 -0400, rev### [at] therectory (Rev. Bob 'Bob'
Crispen) wrote:
>Yeah, VRML's just a *teensy* bit different from QTVR. The former is
>geometry-based, and the latter is photo-based.
>
>The only thing that's worth translating at all, imho, is triangle
>meshes. It should be fairly easy with perl or awk or a little piece of
>C to turn POVRay triangle meshes into VRML IndexedFaceSets.
Doesn't the latest 3DWin read/write from/to Warp's compressed mesh
format?
Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] usanet
TAG e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg
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The kindly Rev. overheard pet### [at] usanet (Peter Popov) saying on
20 Oct 2000:
>>Yeah, VRML's just a *teensy* bit different from QTVR. The former is
>>geometry-based, and the latter is photo-based.
>>
>>The only thing that's worth translating at all, imho, is triangle
>>meshes. It should be fairly easy with perl or awk or a little piece
>>of C to turn POVRay triangle meshes into VRML IndexedFaceSets.
>
>Doesn't the latest 3DWin read/write from/to Warp's compressed mesh
>format?
Yeah, but I thought Warp's compressed mesh format was also binary
compressed. Was I mistaken? I'm embarrassed to say I haven't looked at
it yet.
Somehow I have this weird feeling that we're talking about two different
things. Please bear with me, on the off chance you don't already know
this much better than I do.
The .wrl file format is for Virtual Reality Modeling Language (VRML).
It's a text format (to be specific, UTF8).
The original question was, unless that bad acid is kicking in again, can
you convert from POVRay to VRML?
Ken answered no, and I agreed with him in the main. While you do have
cones, spheres, cylinders, and blocks in both VRML and POVRay, VRML has
no toruses (or Tauruses), no CSG, no blobs, no computed surfaces, and on
and on.
But there's two ways to build POVRay scenes: by hand and with a
modeler. And since modelers often product lots of triangles and smooth
triangles, I just wanted to point out that you could, in that subset of
POVRay scenes, convert a trangle mesh or smooth triangle mesh to a VRML
IndexedFaceSet, provided you were willing to write a little text
manipulation program to play around with the text in the POVRay file.
You could even do it by hand in a text editor if you were far more
careful and patient than I am.
In the case of triangles, you'd simply take out all the coordinates,
stick them in an array, and then create coordinate indexes 0 1 2, 3 4 5,
and so on (in the VRML syntax, each coordIndex ends with a -1 as a
punctuation mark).
In the case of smooth triangles, you'd take the normal fields and create
an array of them as well, setting normalPerVertex true. That ought to
look pretty good.
But in any case, it's just plain text manipulation, and all the
information is already there in the .pov or .inc file. You don't have
to triangulate or do anything fancy since POV declares one triangle at a
time.
Now that I think of it, you'd have to change the signs of all the Z
values. I'll have to think for a minute about what that means for the
normals.
If it turns out Warp's compressed format is actually text and lets you
specify coordinate arrays, coordinate indexes, and indexed arrays of
vertex or face normals, than I'm the one who doesn't know what's going
on, and it should be miles easier to convert from that format to VRML.
As to using a cylinder to project an image on in VRML, I've seen it done
on the Mars Rover images, and it was awful. You get all the slow
download speed of bitmap graphics *and* you get crummy looking
rendering, because VRML has got to project the bits into the viewing
plane of the browser, which is invariably at the wrong distance and at
the wrong angle for them to show up very well. Or will be, as soon as
the visitor to the VRML world moves.
Now I see what you were talking about when you mentioned projecting the
scene on a cylinder and using it in QTVR. If you use SkyPaint
<http://www.wasabisoft.com/>, you could in fact create a LivePicture
scene. I don't know about QTVR itself, though.
--
Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen
crispen at hiwaay dot net
Grabel's Law: 2 is not equal to 3 - not even for very large
values of 2.
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On 20 Oct 2000 22:02:07 -0400, rev### [at] therectory (Rev. Bob 'Bob'
Crispen) wrote:
>Yeah, but I thought Warp's compressed mesh format was also binary
>compressed. Was I mistaken? I'm embarrassed to say I haven't looked at
>it yet.
No, it's a text format. That's why Chris Colefax's macros can read it.
>The .wrl file format is for Virtual Reality Modeling Language (VRML).
>It's a text format (to be specific, UTF8).
I know, I've played with it a little.
>The original question was, unless that bad acid is kicking in again, can
>you convert from POVRay to VRML?
And the answer is that you can, but only meshes.
>If it turns out Warp's compressed format is actually text and lets you
>specify coordinate arrays, coordinate indexes, and indexed arrays of
>vertex or face normals, than I'm the one who doesn't know what's going
>on, and it should be miles easier to convert from that format to VRML.
Warp's compressed mesh is just what you described - vertex
coordinates, normals, vertex & normal indices and then UV coordinates
(if necessary), all in plain vanilla ASCII.
>As to using a cylinder to project an image on in VRML, I've seen it done
>on the Mars Rover images, and it was awful. You get all the slow
>download speed of bitmap graphics *and* you get crummy looking
>rendering, because VRML has got to project the bits into the viewing
>plane of the browser, which is invariably at the wrong distance and at
>the wrong angle for them to show up very well. Or will be, as soon as
>the visitor to the VRML world moves.
Just an idea anyway. I never said it would work like a charm :)
Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] usanet
TAG e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg
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The kindly Rev. overheard pet### [at] usanet (Peter Popov) saying on
21 Oct 2000:
>>The .wrl file format is for Virtual Reality Modeling Language
>>(VRML). It's a text format (to be specific, UTF8).
>
>I know, I've played with it a little.
I'll say you have! Christ, why didn't you tug on my coat or something?
Sorry, Peter, I must be growing senile.
>Warp's compressed mesh is just what you described - vertex
>coordinates, normals, vertex & normal indices and then UV coordinates
>(if necessary), all in plain vanilla ASCII.
I found the URL in the backlogs of p.b.utilities, so I'll check it out.
Looks like Warp reinvented the IndexedFaceSet (which also can have a
TextureCoordinate field)! See, I told you VRML had some good ideas.
;-)
Actually, I think either Rikk Carey (Inventor) or Eric Haines (nff) may
have done it first. One of these days somebody will write a history of
3D file formats and some of us will be the only ones who buy it.
Speaking of 3D file formats, I've been into the innards of .3dmf
recently. Does somebody want to tell me what the heck the edges are for
in the TriMesh?
>>As to using a cylinder to project an image on in VRML, I've seen it
>>done on the Mars Rover images, and it was awful. You get all the
>>slow download speed of bitmap graphics *and* you get crummy looking
>>rendering, because VRML has got to project the bits into the viewing
>>plane of the browser, which is invariably at the wrong distance and
>>at the wrong angle for them to show up very well. Or will be, as
>>soon as the visitor to the VRML world moves.
>
>Just an idea anyway. I never said it would work like a charm :)
What makes LivePicture and QTVR work so well is that at a particular
distance the pixels in the texture line up one for one with the pixels
in the viewing window. So just keep the distance fixed between the
viewpoint and the surrounding cylinder of image (that's one reason
you're stuck in the middle of a QTVR scene), add a little pixel blending
to depixelate to either side of the center of the frustum, and the user
will do the rest as he rotates to look at the area of interest. The
user thinks the image is sharp because he's looking at the center, which
*is* sharp.
--
Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen
crispen at hiwaay dot net
In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life:
it goes on.
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