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"C.J. (C. Jokinen)" wrote:
> Rune I know this guy via email and linked
> forums. I'll try to relay your message to
> him. Last I talked with his wife she said
> he was gaming alot so he may not be
> checking his e-mail. I'll let you know if
> I get a hold of him.
Thanks you! I appreciate that!
Greetings,
Rune
---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!
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"Mike Weber" wrote:
> Very easy. Rename your files or
> whatever he/she is linking to and
> rename appropriately in your html.
> All his/her links will now be bad.
> Problem solved.
Thanks for your reply!
Problem is that only his links to *my* files would be bad. Of course I
cannot speak for others, but I think that I'm not the only one who don't
like having people linking directly to my binaries resources. It would be
annoying if maybe hundreds of people had to rename their files just because
one person linked to them.
Greetings,
Rune
---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!
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"ryan constantine" wrote:
> are they links to new pages? or has he
> put up the site and then left it to rot
> in cyberspace?
It's not completely updated, yet it must be somewhat new. There's a link to
MegaPov 0.3.
> what i would do if i were you would be
> to change the directories of your pages
> so his links don't match.
Thanks for the suggestion. I think I would rather rename my binary files, so
the page links still work but not the links that links directly to the
binary files. But I don't think that's the best solution. See my reply to
Mike Weber.
Greetings,
Rune
---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!
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> So sorry to hear my website has caused you
> so many problems. I am assuming that you
> emailed me by clicking on the very
> prevailent email icon, but no matter.
That's what I did.
> For whatever reason, I have yet to recieve
> a SINGLE email from you.
Hmm, I don't know why. I didn't receive any error messages.
> If you would have looked in the website
> section titled "Member Contact Information",
> you would have found my personal email
> address as well.
OK, I just assumed the e-mail icon was good enough if I wanted to mail you.
> Now then, down to business. Please tell me
> here (or email me at the address listed
> above) exactly which links are YOURS and
> they will be removed.
All the links at http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk/
I would appreciate if you kept the links to the html pages.
> As to any others that feel a link is some
> sort of improper intrusion, please follow
> the directions above and your links will
> be removed as well.
It is not generally accepted to link to other people's resources without
having got their permission. For that reason people shouldn't have to tell
you if they want their link removed. YOU should ask for permission in the
first place.
Here's a quote by Ken:
"Many people put in a lot of time and effort publishing their web pages
and offer some POV-Ray related materials to attract visitors to their
site. If you collect all of the resources available from the hundreds
of sites out there, and put it into one monster collection, there will
be no reason for people to visit the other web pages. Besides making
a lot of web pages instantly obsolete I am sure you also run the risk
of hurting the feeling of more than just a few people who enjoy having
regular visitors to their sites.
I personally never would, and never have, put someone else's material
on my own web page without first asking permission. I would consider
it in very poor taste to do so and it would show that a person has
very little regard or respect for copyright law. I think there is a
strong moral justification to contact the owner of the material for
permission prior to inclusion into any such collection."
> Thankyou for your understanding,
And thank you for your understanding too.
Greetings,
Rune
---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!
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Rune wrote:
> Here's a quote by Ken:
>
> "Many people put in a lot of time and effort publishing their web pages
> and offer some POV-Ray related materials to attract visitors to their
> site. If you collect all of the resources available from the hundreds
> of sites out there, and put it into one monster collection, there will
> be no reason for people to visit the other web pages. Besides making
> a lot of web pages instantly obsolete I am sure you also run the risk
> of hurting the feeling of more than just a few people who enjoy having
> regular visitors to their sites.
>
> I personally never would, and never have, put someone else's material
> on my own web page without first asking permission. I would consider
> it in very poor taste to do so and it would show that a person has
> very little regard or respect for copyright law. I think there is a
> strong moral justification to contact the owner of the material for
> permission prior to inclusion into any such collection."
I was in good form that day :)
Just like I said above about collecting material into one large collection
without permission also applies to directly linking to files on other
peoples web sites. I just consider it common courtesy to let people know
that you are using their resources in this manner. You not only linking
to their material you are consuming their bandwidth. Some people (me for
example) pay for the cost of their web sites rather than using free web
page services such as xoom and geocities.
--
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/
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Ken,
A link is a link is a link! A simple html tag redirecting your browser to
another URL does NOT consume bandwidth, even if the URL ends in .zip! What
does consume bandwidth is the actual transfer of data from your site, when
someone actually downloads your file for instance. If a file is available
on a website for public consumption in the first place, links on other sites
will possibly contribute to an increase in downloads through increased
publicity, but do not consume your bandwidth by simply existing.
I'm starting to feel like Capt'n Oct, King of the Bandwidth Pirates or
something ;)
My collection of links serves the povray community by providing fast access
to both the respective files AND the source html. For the respective
authors of such software, this is a GOOD thing, as it may increase awareness
of their work in the povray community. Publicity, feedback, compliments...
all of this comes to those who write good code and make it publicly
available, but only if people know where to find it!
For the prospective povray user, my site simply provides the very best
collection of links to "quality" includes and macros publicly available on
the web. I dare say that there may be no other single site in existance
that is capable of providing such concise information so quickly. I know
it took me over a month to find the links that I have there. Most pov'ers
know the frustration of trying to find a rumored include or macro, only to
wade through screen fulls of dead-end links and unrelated web "fluff". I
am simply trying to alleviate some of this.
Yes, handcrafted webpages can be a thing of pride and there are reasons for
wanting people to see them. My links are not designed to be a showcase for
pretty websites... it is designed to supply answers fast.
As for "common courtesty to let people know that you are using their
resources in this manner", I couldn't agree more. In fact, several of the
authors whose work I have links to have consented, either non-specifically
(in a readme) or via email. To assure that all of them (over 120) recieved
this same consideration was simply beyond my abilities at the time. I have
retracted my links to Rune's specific website/resources and have publicly
offered to do the same for any others that might share his concerns.
For you, Rune, and anyone else who might be interested:
I am soon going to be updating my website including verification of links.
It is my goal to only provide the best links and resources available to the
povray community. I will be personally emailing all authors of any files I
wish to include in my links to ask for permission. This permission will be
asked to both post the link as well as to publicly archive the files in MY
server, so as to put concerns of bandwidth to rest... I will "foot the bill"
for any that wish to have their work archived.
If you have written includes or macros for povray and would wish to publicly
share them with the rest of the community through my website, please feel
free to email me with the specific details.
If you know that I already have your contribution on my links pages, please
email a quick note either granting permission to continue my service or
requesting that I withdraw your link. Regardless, you should be recieving
an email from me soon anyway.
Thanks in advance for all your help and understanding,
October
----------------
Team MBS Graphics Group
http://www.crosswinds.net/~teammbs
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"October" wrote:
> I'm starting to feel like Capt'n Oct, King
> of the Bandwidth Pirates or something ;)
I think the bandwidth problem is not as bad as the problem of making other
people's pages obsolete.
> My collection of links serves the povray
> community by providing fast access to both
> the respective files AND the source html.
> For the respective authors of such software,
> this is a GOOD thing, as it may increase
> awareness of their work in the povray
> community.
Awareness of authors' work will increase even more if people visit their
pages where the resources are.
> Publicity, feedback, compliments...
> all of this comes to those who write good
> code and make it publicly available, but
> only if people know where to find it!
That's why regular links to html pages are a good thing.
> For the prospective povray user, my site
> simply provides the very best collection of
> links to "quality" includes and macros
> publicly available on the web. I dare say
> that there may be no other single site in
> existance that is capable of providing such
> concise information so quickly.
Other's have though of it, but for moral reasons they chose not to make it.
> I know it took me over a month to find the
> links that I have there. Most pov'ers know
> the frustration of trying to find a rumored
> include or macro, only to wade through screen
> fulls of dead-end links and unrelated web
> "fluff". I am simply trying to alleviate some
> of this.
There's just as big a chance that a link to a .zip file is a dead-end link
as that a link to a html page is. In a good link collection to html pages
people don't have problems finding the resources.
> Yes, handcrafted webpages can be a thing of
> pride and there are reasons for wanting people
> to see them.My links are not designed to be a
> showcase for pretty websites... it is designed
> to supply answers fast.
Here's the problem. You think you have the right to decide if you want to
link directly or not because it's your page. But it is NOT your resources.
You do not have the right to decide if people must visit the pages in order
to get the resources. It should be the choice of the authors of the
resources.
> As for "common courtesty to let people know
> that you are using their resources in this
> manner", I couldn't agree more. In fact,
> several of the authors whose work I have
> links to have consented, either
> non-specifically (in a readme) or via email.
> To assure that all of them (over 120) recieved
> this same consideration was simply beyond
> my abilities at the time.
It is great that you provide direct links to the resources of those who
accept it, but you shouldn't include links to resources where you have got
no permission at all. Being beyond your abilities is not an excuse.
> I am soon going to be updating my website
> including verification of links. I will be
> personally emailing all authors of any files
> I wish to include in my links to ask for
> permission.
I think this is good. If you begin to have links to resources where you have
got permission only, it will indeed be a great links collection.
> Finally, the implication that posting a
> simple link to an exterior location is
> somehow related to copyright law is simply
> erroneous, and in my opinion, in bad taste...
I was simply quoting Ken.
Greetings,
Rune
---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!
Post a reply to this message
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I personally would prefer visitors to visit my site rather that directly
downloading the file you are linking. Mainly because I would like to think
my site offers more than just one binary. Also the binary you are linking
is out of date, Blob Man is now currently on version 4.2, that's 4 versions
on from than the one you have linked, plus there are update binaries
available for those with older versions, so they don't have to download the
whole thing.
Regards,
Peter H.
--
____________________________________________________________________
___ _ _ _______
| _ \ || | Peter Houston Houston Graphics 3D Sketch Pad |__ / \
| _/ __ | http://welcome.to/HoustonGraphics |_ \ |) |
|_| |_||_| ICQ# 8770407 Latest Update : 11 May 2000 |___/___/
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You could contact crosswinds.net and inform them of the practice and that it
is undesirable. See if they can verify that the page is still active.
Rune <run### [at] iname com> wrote in message
news:391c7e75@news.povray.org...
> A while ago I found a POV-Ray related website with link to various
> resources. I saw that there was linked to the pages containing the
> resources, but there was also linked directly to the resources, which is
not
> generally accepted on the net, when permission is not granted.
>
> The page is at:
>
> http://www.crosswinds.net/~teammbs/vault.html
>
> 20 days ago I wrote an e-mail to him, telling him what's wrong, and asking
> him (politely I think) to remove the direct links. I didn't get a reply,
and
> the page remained the same.
>
> 5 days later I asked him the same again, and said that if he needed some
> time to change the page I wouldn't mind, but I would at least like to hear
> from him. Still nothing happened.
>
> So what can I do now? I don't like him linking directly to my resources,
and
> I'm sure many other feel the same.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Rune
>
> ---
> Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
> Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
> The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
> miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!
>
>
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"October" <oct### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:391e2f8b@news.povray.org...
> My collection of links serves the povray community by providing fast
access
> to both the respective files AND the source html. For the respective
> authors of such software, this is a GOOD thing, as it may increase
awareness
> of their work in the povray community. Publicity, feedback,
compliments...
> all of this comes to those who write good code and make it publicly
> available, but only if people know where to find it!
October,
While I follow your line of reasoning, I can not accept it. Surely your
collection of links serves the pov community (I assume it is well done - I
did not check). Maybe your link collection is a good thing for the authors -
but this is for them to judge. Just because you think it is good for them
does not mean they agree. Each author has the right to keep control of how
and where his work is distributed. If an author "uses" an item you link
directly to to attract people to his site, you are actively destroying his
work.
> As for "common courtesty to let people know that you are using their
> resources in this manner", I couldn't agree more. In fact, several of the
> authors whose work I have links to have consented, either non-specifically
> (in a readme) or via email. To assure that all of them (over 120) recieved
> this same consideration was simply beyond my abilities at the time.
You just can't (morally speaking) work that way. You have to get an
agreement _first_, then include the links. And if you do not even get an
answer, you have no right to include the link. Saying that you were unable
to contact all authors (due to their number) is not an acceptable argument.
You have to give yourself the means adequate to the task - or choose a goal
according to the means you have.
> I have
> retracted my links to Rune's specific website/resources and have publicly
> offered to do the same for any others that might share his concerns.
This is no good. You have no assurance that they read this. You have to
contact them personally and get an agreement for including their links.
Period.
Now, I understand you did all this in good faith and it more than probably
was quite a workload. I am not reproaching, criticising nor scolding you. I
just try to inform. I know this post is a bit harsh and dry, but it is so
for speed sake (I am writing this form work) and clarity.
Keep on the good work,
Povingly,
Philippe
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